Evidence of meeting #23 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was russia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, I think that it's very important to hear from the UCC. I'm certainly glad that they're joining us here today. I think it's a bit unfortunate that a motion was moved by a Conservative during the UCC's testimony, because it does take away time from this important discussion, and I think we should maximize the amount of time we have with the Ukrainian congress while they are with us. While I appreciate the suggestion, it could be something we deal with when we don't have witnesses before us.
I would move to adjourn debate on this motion.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Marty Morantz
I'm sorry, Mr. Clerk, but I'm going to need a little assistance from you on this. We have a motion on the floor for—
2:50 p.m.
The Clerk
We have to vote—
2:50 p.m.
The Clerk
To adjourn debate, we have to vote on the motion by Ms. Bendayan to adjourn debate. It's not debatable.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
2:50 p.m.
The Clerk
Yes.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Marty Morantz
All right. I'm going to call the question on Ms. Bendayan's motion to adjourn debate on Mr. Bezan's motion.
(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 4)
The motion has been approved and debate is now adjourned on Mr. Bezan's motion.
Mr. Bezan, you have roughly two minutes left in your round. You have the floor. Please proceed.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to go back to UCC to talk about the situation on the ground. Could they describe in more detail where Ukraine needs more assistance? Now that Russia is receiving potentially more revenues through Gazprom, how can Canada invest in Ukraine to help it win this war?
2:50 p.m.
President, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
Again, hearkening back to my earlier response, I am not a military expert, but I do believe—
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB
I'm talking not just about the military. I'm talking about the entirety, including the economy, humanitarian assistance, infrastructure, having a Marshall plan and things along those lines.
2:50 p.m.
President, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
Of the avenues that have been pursued by the allies so far, I think where we could see more is in even greater sanctions. I don't believe that we have seen the “sanctions from hell” that President Biden forecast many months ago. They seem to be coming in spurts. I think they could certainly be more aggressive and more comprehensive.
On economic support, Ukraine has had to ask for a waiver of interest payments on the international debt that it owes. The contraction of the economy is forecast at something like 40%. Ukraine needs economic support to keep small businesses going. What I marvel at is the fact that there is any business or any economy functioning at all in these wartime conditions, so anything that we can do to assist....
On the humanitarian aid front, while Canada has welcomed, I believe, close to 50,000 Ukrainians in the last few months, there is ongoing support that can be provided to our allies in Europe, where the bulk of the displaced persons remain. They are reluctant to leave the continent.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Marty Morantz
Ms. Chyczij, I hate to interrupt, but there are other members. We have such a short time, seeing how fast half an hour goes by.
Mr. Sidhu is now up for six minutes. Mr. Sidhu, you have the floor.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be splitting my time with my colleague Francesco Sorbara.
Ms. Chyczij, thank you for being here with us today and for taking the time to share some of your thoughts and your statement in this very important meeting.
Ms. Chyczij, as you may be aware, just this week, Canada imposed further additional sanctions as we continue to stand side-by-side with Ukraine. There is no doubt that Canada will continue working with our international partners and allies to explore additional measures. As stated by Minister Joly, studies show that Russia has lost companies worth nearly 40% of its GDP as a result of the many sanctions imposed by Canada and our allies.
Given the significant volume of sanctions announced, it is sometimes difficult to compare. When it comes to sanctions against industries such as oil and gas and luxury goods, are you aware of any other G7 countries that have implemented measures as expansive as Canada's?
2:55 p.m.
President, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
I do not have our comparison chart at hand. Our office runs that metric, and we can share it with the committee if you'd like.
One of the things that Canada could do that would do more than sanctions is declare Russia a state sponsor of terrorism. That would take care of a lot of the issues that we are talking about. It would remove state immunity from Russia and it would make it the pariah internationally that it deserves to be.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
As you just mentioned, you've called for Russia to be declared a state sponsor of terrorism. It's a designation that Canada has only ever used against Iran.
To your knowledge, have any other G7 governments implemented similar designations against Russia?
2:55 p.m.
President, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
That debate is ongoing south of our border. Our American friends, in both Houses, are considering a motion to do just that.
As Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker, said, “If Russia is not listed as a state sponsor of terrorism, tear up the list.”
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
Can you speak to the importance of Canada's continued support for Ukraine with financial and military aid, and why it's important that Canadians not become fatigued as this war drags on?
2:55 p.m.
President, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
It's a war that Ukraine is fighting for all western democracies. If Ukraine loses this war, as Jens Stoltenberg said, eventually that war will bleed out to Europe and beyond. We know that from Putin's statements. You've all read his manifestos, in which he foresees a reconstitution not just of the former Soviet Union, but of the Russian empire.
We know that the support of Ukraine's neighbours is particularly strong, because they know that all that stands between them and Putin is the Ukrainians.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll now turn the floor over to Francesco Sorbara.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Parliamentary Secretary Sidhu.
To the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, thank you for your testimony today.
Obviously, we want this war to come an end as soon as possible, and for Ukraine to have its territorial sovereignty and integrity protected and belonging to the Ukrainian people and no one else. Full stop.
In terms of the view of the world, our allies and working together, wouldn't you agree that it's important for Canada to continue working with our allies? You mentioned the United States. The United States came out and said they supported our decision on the turbines. The Europeans said the same thing. In fact, moving the turbines back over to mainland Europe will not impact the amount of funds that Russia collects. Those are done under a contract with Europe. MP Bezan alluded to this fact. I'm going to have to disagree with that. My understanding of how that works is that it would not actually allow Russia to gain any additional funds. I want to make that point.
Don't you agree that Canada has been working with its allies and with Ukraine? Even today, there was the announcement of the Canadian Armed Forces going over to the U.K. to continue to assist in the training of Ukrainian soldiers to defend their territorial integrity.
3 p.m.
President, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
The Ukrainian Canadian Congress appreciates all of the assistance that Canada and allies have been providing, but on this point we respectfully disagree. We believe that this was a test of unity on sanctions. We believe that this has created a chink in the armour.
It's not too late to reverse that decision. It is a revokable permit. We call upon this committee to ask the Government of Canada to revoke that permit.
We have not heard what the Americans or any other allies have said since July 9, when we saw the result of the return of that turbine.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Chair, I've finished my line of questioning. Thank you.
Thank you for your attendance today, Alexandra. God's blessings and Godspeed to the people of Ukraine.