Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 17th, 2022

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

If the government were to have said that granting this exemption would protect jobs, you would say that's incorrect. You would say that those jobs are secure, regardless. You would say that the jobs at these facilities are secure, regardless of the government's decision on this issue.

[Arne Wohlschlegel]

It's always difficult to predict the future, but right now we didn't say that.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You didn't say that the jobs are at risk. The jobs are not at risk as a result of this decision, one way or the other.

Essentially, I'm asking you to repeat your point, but it seems like you've been clear.

For the record, you're nodding.

I'm interested by the fact that you said you didn't lobby the government with respect to this issue, but we have, in the lobbyist registry, a record of you meeting with deputy ministers in April—not you personally, but Siemens—and with the Prime Minister in August. You've met with the government at that senior level, yet you have not in any way lobbied them with respect to a decision around this issue.

[Arne Wohlschlegel]

I, personally, had two meetings.

One was in April, which I mentioned earlier. That was the round table that was facilitated by Ambassador Sparwasser, and she invited German and Canadian government officials. We talked about LNG, critical infrastructure, mining and hydrogen.

The second meeting, in August, was when the chancellor and his delegation visited Toronto, Montreal and Newfoundland. We, as an energy technology company, were invited and present. We are very interested in the green energy technology developments in Newfoundland, so we had engagements. Actually, he came to our booth and talked to us about hydrogen. That's why we registered—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

The point is that you were talking about completely different things.

[Arne Wohlschlegel]

At no point did I talk about the turbine with him.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I think that's very clear.

I think that's my time. I'll take more if I can have it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you. Yes, you're considerably over, Mr. Genuis.

We next go to Mr. Oliphant for the last question.

You have five minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witness for attending today. Also, thank you for your corporate social responsibility, both in your compliance with the Canadian sanctions regime and with your ongoing work in energy security in Canada and around the world. I want to get that out there.

I hate the fact that I am probably the oldest in the room—that is something I am coming to grips with—but it means that I've been through sanctions many, many times. I remember sanctions in the 1960s, which were often blanketed sanctions. What we learned from sanctions regimes around the world is that sanctions should be targeted to hurt the people who need to be hurt and not the people who are not at fault in any conflict or anything. Targeted sanctions are what we have moved to from blanketed sanctions, because we learned in countries like Zimbabwe that those hurt poor people.

Our sanctions against the Putin regime in Russia—and against many Russians and Belarusians—are meant to target the people who have illegally invaded Ukraine and not to target Germans and others in Europe who would not have energy needs fulfilled. With our regime, we are attempting to pinpoint and be as laser-like as possible when doing that.

With regard to the turbines going back or not going back to Germany, would a turbine going to Gazprom impact Germans, Europeans or Russians?

[Arne Wohlschlegel]

I think I have to go back to what I said earlier.

We saw an energy security issue, as it was addressed by the governments. That made us file for the permit, so that we could export the turbine to the customer. It is difficult for us to say who would be hurt by those sanctions. We just follow the sanctions regime that was put in place. We understood that we were limited with regard to the ability to deliver the turbine. All of the work stopped on our side until we had permission to proceed.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I recognize that, perhaps, employees at Siemens would not be impacted immediately, but if this work continued forever, would there be an impact on employees at Siemens?

[Arne Wohlschlegel]

Clearly there are impacts on energy security in Europe, as we see right now. I understand this is real, but again, we are a turbine manufacturing and service centre. We overhauled the turbine. We made it ready for shipment. We can't speculate or comment on what impacts or what results it would create. We follow the guidance here from the governments on how to proceed.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

At this point, Mr. Wohlschlegel, I'd like to thank you very much for your testimony and for participating in this session, which is devoted to the study of the Gazprom turbines. Thank you.

Members, if everyone agrees, should we adjourn this meeting?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I would actually like to put forward a motion before you adjourn the meeting, if I could.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Can it wait until the next meeting? It was just a bang away.

Can it wait or can it not?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I want to bring up a motion that I circulated already.

It's just that I think we need this Foreign Affairs committee to look at what's happening in Haiti and expedite the motion that was brought forward by a member from the government party and also by Mr. Bergeron from the Bloc Québécois.

I know we have this on our calendar. It is so pressing. It is so important that we look at this. I was hopeful that we could move the study on the situation in Haiti up slightly, if possible. We do have some potential spots on our calendar. There are other things we can move back.

This is quite urgent. That's what I want to talk to—

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

On a point of order, I didn't understand what motion we're talking about. That wasn't clear.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Yes. Could you be more specific about the wording of your motion?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Yes, I will read the motion in. Just give me one moment here. Thank you.

It is that, given the urgent and deteriorating situation in Haiti and the actions of the Government of Canada in recent days, the committee hold its two meetings on Haiti earlier than planned, and that these meetings happen before Friday, November 4, 2022.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I was just asking for what the Haiti—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Oliphant, hold on just one second.

You were just tabling this right now. Is that right?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I would like to have some—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

No one has received 48 hours' notice.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Then I will table it.

If we agreed, we could—