Evidence of meeting #35 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was haitians.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I'd like to thank the witnesses, Ms. Osman from IDRF and Ms. Imseis from UNHCR, for being here. Thank you for the fantastic work that both of you and your organizations are doing.
I will share that I was in Pakistan in June of this year, prior to the news hitting and the intense flooding starting, but I saw the beginning of the monsoons and some of the impacts around that.
I am half Pakistani. Contrary to what people might think, I'm not full-blooded; I'm part. I was engaging with many Canadians of Pakistani origin who were speaking with me and trying to have Canada, our country, do something for the flooding situation.
I want to note that while in Pakistan, I saw many UNHCR tents along the roadside as I was travelling through the north. Many people were living along the highways in those tents that had “UNHCR” written all over them.
We know there are 1.4 million Afghans who are registered in Pakistan. Can you tell us how many registered and unregistered Afghans there are, and how this flooding situation further puts these refugees—not only Afghans, but all refugees—on the edge literally and figuratively?
5:55 p.m.
Representative to Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
I assume that question was for me.
5:55 p.m.
Representative to Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
Thank you for that question.
Indeed, we have 1.3 million Afghans who are registered as refugees with UNHCR. In addition to that, we have somewhere in the neighbourhood of 850,000 Afghans who carry something called an Afghan citizen card, and we estimate that another 600,000 or 700,000 Afghans are undocumented. It's quite a substantial population in the country, and, as I said in my opening remarks, they have been, in large part, there for over 40 years.
Of course we've had recent influxes and new flows of refugees coming into the country following the Taliban's takeover last August, but the conditions were quite dire to begin with. When you have a protracted displacement situation of this sort, one that spans decades, it becomes very difficult to sustain donor support and donor funding for the operations in the country. UNHCR has been there for over 40 years, so there have been many moments when we have struggled to fund the needs of those in the country consistently in a sustainable way.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I want to ask you about the security situation and how displacement and lack of security for refugees leads to insecurity and how that impacts the globe, including western countries. Perhaps you could think about that as you continue your answer.
5:55 p.m.
Representative to Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
I'm not sure I follow the thread.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I'm talking about how insecurity, when people are living in extremely precarious situations, can lead to people latching onto inappropriate ideas and causes.
5:55 p.m.
Representative to Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
Certainly desperation drives people to do desperate things. That can be any range of activities and things that certainly we wouldn't condone.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Would you say it's in Canada's direct interests to ensure that people who are displaced are living with dignity and respect, and that this will lead to help further international peace and security?
6 p.m.
Representative to Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
As a UN official, I will firmly stand behind the UN charter and the principles in the charter, which indeed call for countries like Canada and all member states of the UN to honour their international obligations and also to provide humanitarian support for emergencies as they arise.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
On extremism and terrorism, would you not agree to that?
6 p.m.
Representative to Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
I would certainly say that hopelessness drives those sorts of activities and those sorts of phenomena.
I mentioned in my remarks that child protection risks and the risk of sexual and gender-based violence are things that arise in emergency situations, not just in Pakistan but around the world.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Mr. Zuberi, I'm afraid you're out of time.
We will now go to Mr. Bergeron. You have four minutes, sir.
6 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. President.
Thanks to the witnesses for being with us today and for the work they're doing.
On October 28, the United Nations Development Programme, or UNDP, published an assessment of the damages, losses and needs in the wake of the floods in Pakistan. According to that assessment, total damages will exceed USD $14.9 billion, total economic losses will amount to approximately USD $15.2 billion and rehabilitation and reconstruction needs to at least USD $16.3 billion.
In an open letter dated August 30, 2022, the International Development and Relief Foundation, the IDRF, asked the Government of Canada to create a $50 million aid fund for Pakistan to finance both immediate humanitarian intervention and long-term recovery. Canada's response to the floods and to ensure Pakistan's long-term recovery amounted to $33 million in aid.
My first question is for Ms. Osman.
On the one hand, given the request for $50 million, I imagine you consider $33 million in aid inadequate. On the other hand, I would like to know how you came up with the $50 million amount. Do you believe that amount represents adequate funding to enable Pakistan to recover from the trials it has endured?
6 p.m.
Director, Giving and Impact, International Development and Relief Foundation
I understand your question to be with regard to our open letter and the request to have the government aid be at $50 million as a relief fund that all organizations will be able to access. The reason we came to that number was that the previous 2010 floods were seen at $33 million, matched by Canadians who were looking to help, along with the government. This current flood is unprecedented. We see from international reports that they're estimating $10 billion in damages, so $50 million would just scratch the surface in being able to provide Pakistan with the help they need with rehabilitation over the next two to three years.
As my peer Rema just mentioned, we're looking at health effects. We're looking at outbreaks of malaria. We're looking at the destruction of homes and schools and the displacement of refugees. To our understanding, it's going to take much longer. Coupled with inflation, rising fuel costs and the rising cost of food, it's becoming increasingly difficult, even for aid organizations, to be able to source food for some of our programs.
That's really where our community of civil society organizations has come together to say that the least Canada could do is put together a fund of at least $50 million. That's backed by a lot of international reports.
6 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
As my colleague Mr. Genuis mentioned a few moments ago, the IDRF was effectively excluded from the Canadian government's decision to match donations made to the Humanitarian Coalition, to which you don't belong, to a limit of $7.5 million.
Are you certain that, in spite of everything, the Canadian government will use you as an intermediary in disbursing part of the funding announced to date?
6 p.m.
Director, Giving and Impact, International Development and Relief Foundation
From what I understand about whether or not we'd be a part or be able to access the funds that were announced today, as it stands currently, no, we won't. Although we do work in conjunction with the government for other sorts of projects, when it comes to the disaster relief for flooding in Pakistan, we are not part of that coalition to which funds are being disbursed, much like a lot of our peers.
That's really the heart of our concerns. It just means that fewer people are being helped, essentially.
6:05 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Apart from that Canadian government program to match donations made by the public, other amounts will be disbursed directly by the government.
Is your organization in receipt of part of that funding to assist the people of Pakistan?
6:05 p.m.
Director, Giving and Impact, International Development and Relief Foundation
No. Part of this comes with the crisis being current, which means that accessing those types of funds that are outside of the matching funds would mean putting together a proposal that may take a while to process through government assessment, which we simply can't afford. For the work that we do, luckily, with the community support we had, we decided to move a lot quicker with our current means of using private funding to be able to address the current needs of the people of Pakistan.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.
We will now go to Ms. McPherson for four minutes.
6:05 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
This has been very interesting testimony. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.
I'll follow up on the last question. In terms of the development dollars you have received from the Government of Canada to do work in Pakistan, have you been able to get some mobility with your funding? Has Global Affairs Canada allowed you flexibility, knowing that one of the priorities of our development work is to address the needs of the most vulnerable?
6:05 p.m.
Director, Giving and Impact, International Development and Relief Foundation
I think that question would be for me. We currently do not receive funding from the government for the Pakistan floods.