Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 7th, 2022

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

I want to welcome everyone to meeting number four of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development on Monday, February 7, 2022.

My name is Marty Morantz, member of Parliament for Charleswood-St. James-Assiniboia-Headingley. I'm the vice-chair of the foreign affairs committee. I am chairing the meeting today, as the chair is not available for personal reasons.

I think we'll get right into our witnesses this morning. I'm sorry for the wait.

Mr. Grant, you're up, and you have five minutes. Please proceed.

[Michael Grant, Assistant Deputy Minister, Americas, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm joined today by Sébastien Carrière, Canada's ambassador to Haiti, and Sylvia Cesaratto, director general of Central America and the Caribbean at Global Affairs Canada.

Geographical proximity, a common language and the presence of over 165,000 members of the Haitian diaspora in Canada explain our current strong relationship with Haiti. Since the 2010 earthquake, Canada has provided $1.8 billion Canadian in aid to Haiti, including humanitarian aid. Canada is the second largest bilateral donor to Haiti after the United States, with an annual development assistance budget of $89 million Canadian in 2020‑21. This makes Haiti the largest recipient of Canadian aid in the Americas.

At the United Nations, Canada chairs the Economic and Social Council's Ad Hoc Advisory Group on Haiti and is an active member of the Core Group on Haiti. This group includes the United Nations, Germany, Brazil, Canada, Spain, the United States, France, the European Union and the Organization of American States, or OAS. Canada also plays a very active role in the Haiti file within the OAS, as demonstrated by its participation in the OAS's good offices mission to Haiti in June 2021.

As committee members are no doubt aware, the situation in Haiti is particularly complicated. The country is facing multi‑dimensional crises that have been steadily worsening in recent years, and particularly in recent months. We're talking about the juxtaposition of political, security, humanitarian, social and economic crises. The country is considered a fragile state. The International Crisis Group placed Haiti on its list of 10 countries experiencing conflict that should be monitored closely in 2022. It remains critical to stay focused on this country.

Mr. Chair, the events of the last six to eight months have exacerbated an already fragile situation in Haiti. Insecurity has increased as a result of clashes between gangs and kidnappings in Port-au-Prince. The assassination of President Jovenel Moïse has deepened the political crisis, as has collusion between gangs and political actors. The earthquake that struck the south of Haiti in August, the departure of 30,000 Haitian nationals from certain countries in the region, a fuel crisis and corruption all point to the challenges the country now faces.

The United Nations reported last week that the current humanitarian situation is one of the most difficult in Haiti's history. An estimated 4.9 million people, or 43% of the population, are now in need of assistance and are food insecure. The worsening humanitarian situation directly affects migration from Haiti to all countries in the area.

It should be noted that the United Nations' presence on the ground, outside the enforcement agencies, is now limited to a political mission without an armed presence. This mission is the United Nations Integrated Office in Haiti, or BINUH, whose mandate expires in July.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

You have one minute.

[Michael Grant]

Its renewal will be discussed in the coming months in New York, within the United Nations Security Council.

Today, Mr. Chair, is February 7, a very significant date in Haiti. Since 1997, February 7 has been enshrined in the Haitian constitution as both the beginning and end date of presidential terms.

Indeed, President Moïse's term would have ended today. Since his assassination last July there have been attempts made to find a political agreement between the interim government of Prime Minister Ariel Henry and opposition and civil society groups in order to move towards organizing elections.

In light of the seriousness of the situation, on January 21, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Canada chaired an international ministerial conference on Haiti. In addition to Prime Minister Henry, 27 ministers and representatives of partner countries and international organizations attended this meeting. The importance of a political dialogue was discussed—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

I'm sorry, Assistant Deputy Minister Grant. I'm going to have to ask you to wrap up as we need to move on to the questioning.

[Michael Grant]

Very good, sir.

I'll just make one more comment.

At that ministerial conference, Minister Joly made it clear that the solutions going forward must be by and for Haitians. Canada announced during that ministerial meeting nine new initiatives of $50 million and we will also participate in a donors' conference on February 16.

Canada has been clear in encouraging all of the parties to find a way forward peacefully and politically out of this crisis.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We're now ready to answer your questions.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

Thank you very much, Mr. Grant. I should properly introduce you as the assistant deputy minister of the Americas.

We also have at the meeting Sébastien Carrière, the ambassador of Canada to Haiti, and Sylvia Cesaratto, director general, Central America and the Caribbean.

They are all available to answer the committee's questions.

With that, we will move into round one.

Mr. Ziad, you have six minutes. You have the floor. Please proceed.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

Mr. Grant, I want to begin where you ended your remarks.

Minister Joly had said that any decision when it comes to Haiti has to start by and for Haitians. On July 17, 2021, the Core Group—the ambassadors of Germany, Brazil, Spain, the United States, France, the European Union, and the United Nation's special representative for Haiti—expressed their support for Ariel Henry as interim Prime Minister of Haiti. Prior to that, Canada and the Core Group recognized Claude Joseph as interim Prime MInister.

Do you believe Minister Joly's statement leads to a decision that Canada supports a different interim Prime Minister than our allies on the other side? There is a difference in position here on this specific topic or issue, and I'd like to hear from you.

I'd also like to hear from Mr. Carrière on what exactly led to Canada's position in that regard.

[Michael Grant]

Indeed, I think if Ambassador Carrière could follow my comments it would be a great.

I'll be brief.

First and foremost, as I stated, Canada believes that the way forward in Haiti needs to be led by Haitians. We have been encouraging both the interim Prime Minister, Mr. Henry, as well as the civil society actors and opposition, to come together and reach an accord on a way forward.

They do have a difference of opinion. Mr. Henry would like to move to elections very quickly and some of the main civil society groups have indicated they would like to have a transition period of two years, but it is up to them to decide.

Going back to last summer, clearly the tragic assassination of President Moïse did send Haiti into a political crisis. Just prior to his assassination he had indicated that Mr. Henry would be nominated as Prime Minister. In the immediate aftermath we, of course, indicated our ongoing support for Haiti and Haitians. When the outgoing Prime Minister, Mr. Joseph, and Mr. Henry, reached an agreement on a transition, Canada and its international partners reiterated our support for Haiti, Haitians, and the interim government going forward.

Again, the way out of this political crisis and the way to get to political stability is through an agreement of all parties and to get to an election so the constitutional order can be reinstated.

Ambassador Carrière, would you like to add anything to my comments?

[Sébastien Carrière, Ambassador of Canada to Haiti, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

I will maybe just add that the timing of this meeting is actually excellent because today is February 7, and that's the day that presidential mandates end and begin here in Haiti. Ariel Henry was nominated by President Moïse, and that term, that mandate, was going to end today, so we're now in a situation where everybody is sort of accusing everybody else of not being legitimate. In my personal view, this is quite unproductive, and we're trying to get everyone to focus on finding solutions for the way forward.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

The call for an investigation into the assassination of the president has been issued by the former Governor General of Canada, which means that to support that initiative there is going to be some financial support for the investigation.

Would you be able to brief us on where this is going? Is Canada going to put the money on the table for that initiative? What is the government's position on this, as we speak?

[Michael Grant]

Thank you very much. As you know, Canada has been a strong supporter of Haiti over the years, including in the security sector.

To date, Canada has not received a specific request from the Government of Haiti for either direct financial assistance for this investigation or on the judicial side. We stand ready to provide any judicial assistance that is requested.

We do know that the Government of Haiti has reached out to other governments, including the United States and Jamaica, and I believe those countries have provided that kind of assistance.

As we work with our partners in looking at what Haiti needs going forward, clearly, seeing how the international community can help bolster the justice sector is something we're definitely looking at, but in terms of the specifics of the investigation, there's been no formal request made to the Government of Canada.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Mr. Carrière, would you like to comment on this?

[Sébastien Carrière]

I would only add that Michael is right. There are a few suspects that were arrested in Jamaica and then deported to the U.S., because there is no extradition treaty between Jamaica and Haiti. There's also a suspect in Turkey that Haiti is working to bring to Haiti, and also someone who was arrested next door in the Dominican Republic, so it seems like the walls are coming in, and most of these cases are being dealt with in a court of law in the United States.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

If our government supports any initiative that is led by Haiti, and no formal request has been received from the government there for Canada to participate in such an investigation process, what are the grounds, let's say, for the former Governor General to call for Canada to push in this direction? There are grounds there for anyone to ask that kind of question to get some clarity on this. Would you be able to comment?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

Sorry, Mr. Aboultaif, that is the end of the six-minute round. Perhaps someone else will get to that question in a future round. Thank you.

Mr. Dubourg, you have the floor, for six minutes, please.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Chair and committee members, thank you for inviting me to this standing committee.

I also want to acknowledge the witnesses who are appearing before us this morning.

First, I'd like to ask Ambassador Carrière a number of questions.

When were you appointed Canada's ambassador to Haiti, and what was your relationship with Haiti prior to your appointment?

[Sébastien Carrière]

Thank you for your question.

I was appointed this fall and I started on October 5. This is my third time working on the Haiti file. The two previous times, I worked at headquarters in Ottawa. In the aftermath of the earthquake on January 12, 2010, I worked for the crisis task force set up in response to the earthquake for several months. I was responsible for intergovernmental relations. I then served as deputy director of Haiti relations from 2013 to 2015.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador.

I understand that you started after the assassination of President Jovenel Moïse. Since then, as Mr. Grant just said, the situation has been critical. The crisis is multi‑dimensional. We're hearing about kidnappings and corruption. Politicians are talking a great deal about agreements floating around the country.

Since you have been there, I imagine that you have been walking around and meeting people. How do you view this multi‑dimensional crisis in Haiti?

[Sébastien Carrière]

I think that “multi‑dimensional” is the right term for this crisis. Security is an extremely worrying issue. We're hearing talk of 1,000 kidnappings last year. However, most experts think that there were many more. Many kidnappings aren't reported. Matters are settled directly, in two or three days, between the families and the criminals involved.

A great deal has been said about the Martissant issue. This neighbourhood is located in the southwest of the capital. The national road that provides access to the entire south of the country is blocked by gangs. It's impossible to get through. When an earthquake hit the southern region last August, this blockade made it extremely difficult to deliver humanitarian aid.

Regarding the political crisis, today is February 7, and there's competition among the agreements. From the outside, it looks like the Ariel Henry agreement versus the so‑called “Montana agreement.” A great deal has been said about this topic, especially in prestigious American magazines and newspapers such as the Miami Herald, The New York Times and Foreign Affairs.

However, other groups are involved. There are other agreements and other political players as well. The Haitian Senate has 30 members, 10 of whom are still serving. These are the remaining 10. As for the other 20 members, we know that there hasn't been an election in the Senate for five years. Joseph Lambert, the president of the Senate, is also involved in the crisis, as well as the nine remaining senators.

In short, a host of political agreements and a host of political players are negotiating. There's political sparring, which is normal, to determine who is taking a position, how and why.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Ambassador.

As you know, and as Mr. Grant said, on January 21, Canada, with Minister Joly, showed leadership by bringing together 19 foreign affairs ministers and other international organizations to show solidarity with Haiti. We announced a $50 million contribution.

That said, Minister Joly clearly stated in her remarks that she wanted to see a Haitian solution, by and for Haitians. As you said, February 7 is an important date in Haiti. We're wondering how an agreement or agreements could be reached.

Moreover, are elections possible in Haiti in this type of situation?

[Sébastien Carrière]

We believe that in the current situation, especially for security reasons, it would be extremely difficult to hold elections in Haiti.

As to whether elections should be held by the end of the year or in two years' time, these are matters of domestic politics on which I do not want to comment. However, it is quite clear to me that we cannot have an election in the short term. The minister has also said so.

The important thing is to avoid applying a solution that comes from outside to solve this problem. For our part, we believe that the solution lies in an agreement between the stakeholders, whether they are political entities, civil society or economic actors.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

In closing, Ambassador, can you tell us very briefly what these agreements are?

We've heard of the one called the “Montana Accord” and the one dubbed the “September 11 agreement”, but are there others?

[Sébastien Carrière]

The three main ones are the September 11 agreement, which is Prime Minister Ariel Henry's agreement; there is the Montana Accord, which, as I mentioned before, has been much talked about in the United States; and there is the PEN agreement, an initiative of Senate President Joseph Lambert and a few other political actors, including Senator Youri Latortue.

There was an agreement between the proponents of the PEN agreement and those of the Montana agreement. They told me that it was not an agreement, but an understanding. I'm still trying to figure it out.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

Thank you very much. That ends this round, Mr. Dubourg.

Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for six minutes.