Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 9th, 2023

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

I have one more quick question.

Peru was very late to condemn Russia's aggression into Ukraine, partly because of their reliance on Russian support for their armed forces. There were recent reports of a landslide where Peru does not have the capability, other than with Russian equipment, to reach some of the remote areas.

Is that some place that Canada could support?

[Michael Grant]

I'll turn to my colleague, Mr. Tolland, to respond.

[Jason Tolland, Director General, South America, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you, Mr. Epp.

We don't have any specific information about that or any requests related to that. Usually we respond directly to formal requests that are made to us for assistance. We'd be happy to consider this in the context of any additional information that we can receive on the issue.

We understand, first of all, the nature of the challenge that would be presented and the particular issue raised with the use of equipment from Russia in that context.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We now go to Mr. Zuberi.

Mr. Zuberi, you have three minutes.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you for being here, Mr. Grant and your colleagues, and for taking the time.

You already touched upon this, but can you speak with some specificity about how, in your view, the government and security forces conducted themselves in the difficult moments at that point in time when 59 people were killed? How did the government and security forces conduct themselves at that point in time?

[Michael Grant]

The loss of life has been tragic in this crisis and it's something that we have spoken directly to the Government of Peru about.

It's clear there are investigations needed to identify exactly what transpired. There have been many media reports that it was the security forces who were using excessive force and of course claims by Peruvians themselves. This needs to be investigated. We're very happy that the Government of Peru has agreed and they've launched their own investigations. It's important for us that they have welcomed the role of the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights and the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights.

In terms of the specifics, it's very difficult not having been in those particular settings to roll one way or the other at this point in time, but it's absolutely critical that those investigations take place and that there be a conclusion to them.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I would assume you would be looking for a thorough, robust and transparent investigation into what happened.

[Michael Grant]

Absolutely.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

In terms of how the government and security forces are currently conducting themselves—hindsight is always 20/20—do you feel that the standard is within norms in the region and where we would want to see them going?

[Michael Grant]

I think the commitment by the government, including President Boluarte, is very important. It's the commitment to ensure that all security forces are not using excessive force. At the same time, protesters have a right to peacefully protest. That has been another key message from Canada.

At the same time, the security forces have an obligation to protect Peruvians, and if violence is used by protesters, they have an obligation to address it. However, if violence is used or excessive force has been used, it should be investigated. There's a commitment that's been made by government, and we will continue to hold them to account on that.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Are you monitoring the situation?

[Michael Grant]

Our team on the ground is doing its best to report on events. As I mentioned earlier, one of our top priorities is the safety and security of Canadians, both our staff and anyone who is visiting. We would not put our staff in harm's way, but they do their best to report, based on what they are hearing and seeing in the media and, of course, directly from Peruvians.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We now go to Mr. Bergeron. You have a minute and a half, sir.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Grant, I'm going to ask you the same question I asked the ambassador.

How is it that a process meant to protect democratic institutions could cause the social and political situation to deteriorate so much?

[Michael Grant]

That's a good question.

The political environment is clearly changing in Peru.

Of the 16, I believe, political parties that make up Congress, 12 have a little over 100 seats in the chamber. So it's always hard to reach consensus. It's also always difficult for the president, that is, the government or the executive branch, to come to an agreement with Congress.

In the past, a few presidents have been impeached. We weren't surprised that after the president attempted to dissolve Congress, they decided to impeach him. They acted in accordance with the Constitution. What surprised us were the protests and the government's response.

Our position is clear: The people have a right to hold peaceful demonstrations. The Peruvian government must respect this and not use excessive force.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Why has the situation deteriorated?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm afraid we're out of time. Thank you.

For the last question, we go to Ms. McPherson for a minute and a half, please.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

The violence against indigenous people and against protesters is not something new. Unfortunately, Canadian mining companies are often implicated in Peru in the violence against indigenous people, yet following Castillo's departure and the outbreak of the protests, His Excellency Ambassador Marcotte visited with Peru's mining minister first and did not give the same level of interaction or support to civil society or to protesters.

Can you explain that decision?

[Michael Grant]

First and foremost, Ambassador Marcotte and his team are in constant contact with all aspects of Peruvian society, whether they be civil society organizations or the government.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

They chose to meet with the mining minister as one of the very first meetings that—

[Michael Grant]

No, I believe when the crisis unfolded that our engagement with the Government of Peru was very specific to what we felt were their obligations to ensure there wasn't use of excessive force. I'm not sure of the exact date that you're mentioning in terms of their meeting with the mining minister.

When it comes to Canadian companies operating in Peru, or operating anywhere, there's an understanding between them and the Government of Canada that to receive the services of the trade commissioner service in our department, they must uphold their obligations.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

With all due respect, I would say the CORE and the national contact point are relatively useless at doing the role that needs to be done. I've called them out for their inaction quite frequently. Of course, most of the companies that are bad actors don't receive support from the Canadian government, so that's not really a very good stick in that circumstance, but thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much.

On that note, allow me to thank Mr. Grant, Madam Dubé and Mr. Tolland. We're very grateful for your time and your expertise.

Now if members could remain for a few minutes, there are a few things that you have to approve, a few housekeeping items.

The first one, of course, is a number of budgets. There is the budget for the briefing on Peru, and I understand that everyone has received a copy of this. Is it unanimously approved by all the members?