Foreign Affairs Committee on March 7th, 2023

[Julie Théroux-Séguin]

It should work to make community services, health care services, academic curricula here at home and legislation intersect.

Legislation is already in place. I gave the example of Mali, which passed a sexual and reproductive health law in its Parliament 20 years ago. However, there's been no implementation law. Sometimes movements block implementation right before the law is set to come into force. Civil society is very strong, but it will lack funding and will no longer be able to oppose or counter these other narratives.

So I feel it's important to support a constant dialogue based on facts, not on a situation imposed by cultural perceptions.

When abortions are banned and countries don't provide enough sexual and reproductive health awareness, that puts the health of women and girls at risk.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We next go for the last question for three minutes to MP McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much. Thank you to all the witnesses for the testimony today. It's very important.

I'd like to start with Ms. Kacpura. Thank you, Ms. Kacpura, for being with us today. I know you were generous with your time when the foreign affairs committee was in Poland. You talked to us about the impact on Ukrainians fleeing violence and the impacts for women and girls fleeing violence in their country. You told some pretty horrific stories about what some of these women have to go through and how they have no access to SRHR, to reproductive health supports.

I'm wondering if you could share that with the entire committee.

[Krystyna Kacpura]

From the very beginning of the war, we were sure that FEDERA had to help and assist Ukrainian refugees, women and girls, because our government would not provide them with access to reproductive health services. We established a hotline for women in the Ukrainian language. We printed a special brochure and guide for them. We especially helped, at the very beginning of the war, many young—not only young—girls and women who were raped.

It was very difficult to get testimony from women who were raped, because they didn't want to speak about this. They wanted to forget as soon as possible. During the end of one of these conversation, which I had many times, she said to me, “You know, I was raped by four, and after the fourth man I don't remember, because I fainted. The first thing I would like is to keep this top secret. It is only my problem and my issue. Just help me to take this out of me. Help me access an abortion, because I discovered that I am pregnant, and this is the eighth week of pregnancy.” Of course, we helped her.

It is very difficult to identify testimonies from women who were raped, because they just want access to abortion services. They don't want to speak. They don't want to go to the prosecutor or the police. In Poland, abortion for pregnancies resulting from rape is still legal, but the procedure is very complicated. We did many advocacy efforts to our government's ministry of health, just to treat these kinds of abortions.

For raped women, there's a special way and procedure, because this is a war crime. We also appealed to the European Union, to the Parliament, to treat this in a special way. Don't ask women about names and events, because they don't want to speak about this. They are afraid that somebody else could find out that they were raped. One of these women told me, “Could you imagine my life after the war? Could you imagine my husband and my family? If he knows that I was raped by several Russian soldiers, our greatest enemy, he will not touch me. I will not be his wife any longer.”

It's not easy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Ms. Kacpura.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Do members want to have one more round of two minutes?

Okay, we'll go to the next round,

Mr. Genuis, you have two minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

My question is about illegal abortions. I wanted to ask Dr. Okafor, are foreign governments and international organizations involved in performing or supporting illegal abortions in African countries? Who is funding them? Help us understand the dynamics on that, please.

[Dr. Theresa Okafor]

Unfortunately, foreign governments have been supporting abortions in African states where abortion is illegal. This is intrusive, to be honest with you. It does not protect the mental health of such women, because postabortion syndrome is real.

It's also intrusive in the sense that it goes against the perennial values of African countries.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you. Because of time constraints, could you name specific organizations that you're aware of, or specific governments that are funding it? Any of those details in the 45 seconds I have left would be very helpful.

[Dr. Theresa Okafor]

It's International Planned Parenthood.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

Did you have more to add?

[Dr. Theresa Okafor]

It's International Planned Parenthood. I can also add that the feminist international assistance policy is behind most of it—Global Affairs Canada.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

Could you provide further information on that in writing, please? Any additional evidence or names can be provided in writing to the committee after the fact.

Some legislatures in Africa have far greater representation of women than our own legislature here in Canada. What are you hearing from African women, specifically, on these issues?

[Dr. Theresa Okafor]

African women are crying out and saying we need to prioritize what really matters in the countries. What really matters to African women are economic empowerment and social inclusion—equity. There are a lot of inequalities. COVID, in particular, has brought a disproportionate burden on African women.

We're talking about war in Ukraine, but in many African countries we also have refugee camps. Their priority, in these refugee camps, is employability—skills training, IT training, digital literacy and bridging the digital divide. It's not about prioritizing sex, because that's not of any benefit to the country. We have our ways of taking care of moral values. Family stability is important to Africa, because family is a safety net in Africa.

Thank you for this platform, which lends me a voice on what we really need in Africa.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chair, I was cut off at exactly three minutes.

[Dr. Theresa Okafor]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Dr. Okafor.

We'll go to Mr. Zuberi.

You have two minutes, Mr. Zuberi.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I'll give my time to my colleague Dr. Fry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Dr. Fry, you have two minutes.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Zuberi. I appreciate it.

I want to ask a question of Ms. Kacpura.

I am very well aware of what is happening in Ukraine. When we studied what is going on in Ukraine, we heard about the number of rapes. We also know these women, as you so movingly told us, need access to abortion. Let's imagine: If one is a refugee in your country, Poland, what happens? One can't, as a refugee, just move from Poland to another European country to get access.

What is happening? Are there any humanitarian or compassionate grounds under which the Polish government would help Ukrainian women in these desperate situations?

[Krystyna Kacpura]

Thank you very much, Dr. Fry, for this question.

No, there is no humanitarian exception where you can get access to reproductive health services, especially abortion services.

However, we have many informal initiatives—women's initiatives, above all. My foundation provides all refugees who contact us with access to safe abortion. This is not only through the use of pills, which we order from the Netherlands. In some cases, we do this in Polish hospitals. We have a group of friendly gynecologists and hospitals, so we use the exception for legal abortion in Poland: cases where there is a threat to a woman's health or life.

In such situations, we use mental health. We have organized a network of psychiatrists who consult women, and then issue them a special statement that continuing this pregnancy will threaten their mental health. These abortions are done in Polish hospitals. Not by all, of course, because, additionally, there is a conscience clause used by many gynecologists. However, in some hospitals, it's accessible with this certificate.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Kacpura. This is an extremely important issue for the women from Ukraine and in other—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Dr. Fry, you're out of time.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you.