Foreign Affairs Committee on May 11th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Welcome to meeting number 65 of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person in the room as well as remotely using the Zoom application.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the members and our witness.

Please wait until you have been recognized by name before you speak. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike, and please mute yourselves when you are not speaking.

Interpretation for those on Zoom is at the bottom of your screen, and you have a choice of either floor, English or French audio. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

As a reminder, all comments should be made through the chair.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, February 13, 2023, the committee resumes consideration of Bill S-8, an act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, to make consequential amendments to other acts and to amend the immigration and refugee protection regulations.

It is now my great honour to welcome the sponsor of the bill in the Senate, the Honourable Hon. Peter Harder.

We are very grateful to have him here with us.

Senator, you will be provided five—

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, could I interrupt very quickly to move a motion before the senator starts, so I don't have to interrupt his testimony afterwards?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Yes, by all means, Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, the witness is here and you gave the witness the floor. I think we only have this witness for 45 minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I believe I have the floor, Mr. Chair.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chair, this is highly unusual. A member of the committee does not get to move a motion....

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Could this wait until after the senator is done? He's here for half an hour.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Unfortunately, I would like to move this motion now.

I think you gave me the floor, so I would like to continue to move that if that's possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

By all means, Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I would like to move a motion for a committee study on what actions Canada should take to foster peace and respect for human rights and international law in the region of Israel/Palestine.

The motion was distributed to committee members on April 20.

Mr. Chair, this motion is supported by a number of faith groups, including the National Council for Canadian Muslims, many Christian churches and Jewish Canadians, and Canadian human rights and humanitarian organizations. Many of them are watching us this morning in the hopes that I will have support from all parties to pass this motion.

Today, as you know, is the first anniversary of the death of the Palestinian-American journalist, Shireen Abu Akleh.

The past days and weeks have shown that the region is as far from a peaceful solution as it has ever been and that there are enormous concerns about human rights and respect for international law, including the tax on Palestinian and Israeli civilians.

This is a very challenging topic, and it is one with heightened emotions and serious consequences for many people. It is also a topic that our committee has not studied for at least a few decades, yet it is one that is not only important to many Canadians; it's also integral to Canada's foreign policy.

Canada has a role to play in fostering peace and justice, and its new bid for a seat at the United Nations Human Rights Council makes a study like this all the more important.

I understand there may be some discomfort with such a study. This is a difficult issue. However, we are a serious committee. I think we have a duty to listen and to learn from experts, to approach the subject with respect for each other and for all people, and to help find solutions that will lead Canada on the right path.

I am asking today for the support of all members for this motion:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), and in light of recent events in Israel and Palestine, the committee conduct a study on the actions Canada should take to foster peace and respect for human rights and international law in the region; that the study consist of at least eight meetings; that the Minister of Foreign Affairs be invited to appear and that the committee invite witnesses from Canadian civil society, international humanitarian organizations, and Israeli and Palestinian human rights organizations; that the committee report its findings to the House, and that pursuant to Standing Order 109 the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

Mr. Chair, I would find it extremely troubling if members of this committee chose not to study something that is so important with regard to our foreign policy and if this committee made a decision to once again decline to study something that is so vitally important.

I would urge all of my colleagues to think very carefully about how they vote on this motion. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Ms. McPherson.

Thank you also for reminding all the members that it is the anniversary of the death of Shireen Abu Akleh.

We'll next go to Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My respected colleague has made some substantive comments about substantive issues.

I want to quickly make some comments about process, though. Typically, committees set their agenda via discussion at the subcommittee on agenda and procedure. That's why we have a subcommittee on agenda and procedure.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

On a point of order, this is very much within the Standing Orders. This is very much bringing forward a motion in public. It's very much the usual practice of this committee. As the member knows, he has done this multiple times—bringing this forward. I'm more than happy to meet at the subcommittee to discuss scheduling and the number of meetings, and to have a conversation about witnesses.

However, I think to pretend this is not usual practice in this committee is disingenuous.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

This is not a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Ms. McPherson.

We'll revert back to Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Regarding the questions of order, I don't question the fact that members are entitled to move motions. I think there are circumstances in which that has happened, especially when there have been long periods of time when the subcommittee was not scheduled. My view is that the best practice for setting an agenda is still through the subcommittee.

We have Senator Harder here for half an hour. Look, I think there are important questions raised by this proposal, but I don't think the idea that we would.... There are a lot of questions that could be worked out, but I—

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I have a point of order.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Can I finish my comment, Madam McPherson? The—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

On a point of order, yes, go ahead, Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I would be happy to move directly to a vote so we could save the senator's time. We could move to a vote immediately.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Madam McPherson does not get to make a point of order proposing to move to a vote when there are still members of the committee who would like to speak to the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Ms. Bendayan.

It's back to Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I've been speaking for 60 seconds and there have been three points of order. I think that makes a case, in and of itself, about the value of our trying to come up with a better process for having this discussion internally.

With that in mind, I move to adjourn debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Is that the will of the committee?

Yes, go ahead, Mr. Zuberi