I'll start midstream. I think from the start, any sanctions that have been imposed anywhere take time, as has been said. They, in themselves, will not move a marker on any autocratic leader who decides to go a certain way. It should be noted that there's a military response, and there's a sanctions response. The most important response is from within the country.
Building on that, the sanctions have been successful in the sense that they have brought attention to the fore of human rights defenders within Russia and what has happened to them. As the war evolves, you can see the pressure come forward more and more, but that's the risk for the people who want the war to stop within. I'm not going to speak any further about that.
My concern in Canada has been that we should look at the sanctions. Sanctions are the step that you take as an imposition against another country. But as has been pointed out by Mr. Chong, we have all kinds of activities that lead to the sanctions—there's are the problems of illicit money coming into Canada and human trafficking. Then there's the confusion that comes when you deal with some of these foreign actors, if you're in business, is how do you know whether they're in compliance or not? How do you comply?
This is where the attention of the government really has to be on putting out a generic—that's using the term loosely—principle that they are going to follow, or principles or policy when they look at sanctions, so that it isn't targeted to a specific country but has some relevance for any situation.
What is then the basis of that? Evidence. You need to have those pieces in place. You need a lead agency, but you need to work with your intelligence, and you need to lead with your citizens too. Some of the best information that comes forward on sanctions comes from groups and individuals who know the countries. You've pointed out Ukraine; I also know Russia, Belarus, etc. You can weigh what would work, what might not work, and you might be able to provide evidence.
Using your resources within the community, which are great.... Particularly in a country like Canada we all have links somewhere—we travel, we're mobile, we get information. But we have a lot of NGOs and a lot of professional groups and businesses working around the world who need to feed in. They need to know what is legit or not.
In one of the previous hearings, someone said to give us the rules and make them clear because when we're dealing with a foreign business we need to know whether we're within bounds or without bounds. Giving advice, for example, as a lawyer is what you do, but you need to know how the sanctions are going to be implemented. If we don't know that, we're at risk. There has been a plea from many quarters to have more exchange and dialogue, but also to set in place some terms that will be understood, and a place to go to seek advice.