Foreign Affairs Committee on June 13th, 2023

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much.

You talked about the goal of investing 2% of GDP in defence. What percentage of GDP does Lithuania invest in defence? Should all NATO countries work to achieve that 2% goal?

[Egidijus Meilūnas]

Thank you for your question.

As I mentioned, Lithuania now spends 2.52% of its GDP for military defence purposes. There are discussions in our country, speaking about the future, of the possibility to increase it maybe up 3%. In addition, as I mentioned, our government approved three years of planned additional money to that 2.52% budget to improve military infrastructure by building new barracks and new polygons for soldiers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We now go to Ms. McPherson.

You have four minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for being here, Vice-Minister.

I wanted to take a moment to say thank you for having such a wonderful ambassador. He took the time to visit me and my constituency in Edmonton. Edmonton has a significant Lithuanian population. It was lovely to be able to spend some time with him there.

I think all of us are trying to figure out what we can do to support Lithuania, to support Ukraine and to push back against the imperialism that Russia has brought forward. Obviously, we're appalled by the recent attack on the dam and the increasing threats that the Russians seem to be bringing forward with regard to using nuclear weapons.

Can you talk about the increase in those sorts of attacks and threats, and what, as Canadian parliamentarians, we should take from that?

[Egidijus Meilūnas]

As we witness probably every day during Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine, their main target is the civilian population of Ukraine and the civilian infrastructure. Killing innocent people, destroying cities and shelling villages—you mentioned this attack against Nova Kakhovka dam—are a blatant violation of all international conventions and all international agreements. That's why we are strongly supporting this idea of establishing this special international tribunal for Russia's crime of aggression.

Of course, the International Criminal Court will play a crucial role in bringing Russia to justice and punishing it for other war crimes. The crime of genocide needs our additional efforts and attention.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I did look at some of the documents that have been brought forward and some of the goals that your country has for the NATO summit. One of them is “to expand and strengthen practical co-operation between NATO and its Indo-Pacific partner countries, including in the areas of technology, cyber defence and resilience to hybrid threats, and the pursuit of the rules-based international order.”

We've seen China, perhaps not explicitly but implicitly, supporting Russia during this illegal war.

Do you worry there could be implications with regard to China by having this as one of your stated goals for the Vilnius summit?

[Egidijus Meilūnas]

First of all, we have to very clearly state and send a strong message. We already sent it, but it's to just send it again to China that military support to Russia is the red line. In such a case, be prepared for sanctions or other consequences for China. That is first.

I quoted what the NATO Secretary General said about indivisibility and the links between the Euro-Atlantic area and Indo-Pacific security. We also have to send a very strong message to the PRC, to China, that peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait is also a red line for China.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much.

For the second round, each member gets three minutes.

We first to go MP Epp for three minutes.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Vice-Minister, for joining us today.

You mentioned in your opening comments that you had blocked Belarusian potash shipments through your country to port. Thank you. You are providing the impetus for my farm to find Saskatchewan potash and more efficient ways of getting it there. We very much support that.

Picking up on MP McPherson's questions regarding nuclear weapons, Russia has stated, in quotes, they're storing them in Belarus. I suspect that is not a storage issue from a Lithuanian perspective.

[Egidijus Meilūnas]

First of all, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that Russians are masters in creating false reality and threatening, threatening us, western communities, neighbours. Our assessment is that this Russian-Belarusian agreement on deployment of nuclear weapons in Belarus, first of all, is an attempt to, again, threaten us, threaten Lithuania, threaten the Baltic states and NATO's defence alliance. That is our assessment. Our response should be, as I already mentioned in my introductory remarks, enhancement of NATO's eastern flank and a very clear demonstration of our unity and solidarity.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

You've added your voice to other EU countries in recommending the Wagner Group be listed as a terrorist organization. Do you expect that to come quickly with the EU as a designation? Also, what is the major benefit from having that occur?

[Egidijus Meilūnas]

Actually, our Parliament called not only on other EU states, but on all states globally, to recognize the Russian Federation's private military company Wagner as a terrorist organization. That is the first point.

The second point, speaking about future next steps, our Parliament also “stresses the need for Lithuania to adopt a Law on the Prevention of Terrorism laying down specific criteria for the approval of a list of terrorist organisations by the Government of the Republic of Lithuania or an institution authorised by it, and for the imposition of statutory sanctioning against persons participating in activities of terrorist organizations included in the list.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much.

We now go to MP Oliphant.

You have three minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Vice-Minister, can you explain to me what sanctions Lithuania has against the Wagner Group? You've talked about listing, but do you have a regime of sanctions against the Wagner Group and its leader as well?

[Egidijus Meilūnas]

As I mentioned, now we are working on this law on the prevention of terrorism.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Have you sanctioned the group?

[Egidijus Meilūnas]

At this time, we have no national legal framework for doing that.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I just wanted to get that on the record.

You're calling on us to list them, but we've already sanctioned them and have strong sanctions against both the leader, the owner, as well as the group. I just wanted to make sure this was clear, that we have different regimes, but we've already acted as strongly as any other country has on the Wagner Group. It doesn't mean we don't consider other actions, but I wanted to do that.

I want to ask about Kaliningrad. I won't get into the naming issue and what Poland wants to call it or what Germany used to call it. What is its strategic significance for Russia and what is its threat to the Baltics?

[Egidijus Meilūnas]

For Russia, the Kaliningrad region and Kaliningrad port are of strategic importance. Right now it remains their only port in the Baltic Sea, and with Sweden's and Finland's succession to NATO, some experts say that the Baltic Sea region becomes an internal NATO sea. Russia's aggressive behaviour against us, against the NATO community, poses a fundamental threat to the whole Baltic Sea region and its member states.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I wanted to get that in there, because we haven't really talked about it in our committee before and because it borders you. We have Belarus, and you have Kaliningrad right there.

The last thing would be with respect to Ukraine's NATO membership. I assume you know that Canada was the first country to call for Ukraine's membership in NATO 15 years ago using the open door policy. We have reiterated it several times, recognizing that what we've done in the last 15 years is build capacity through training military, through transparency and anti-corruption measures, building democracy to get them ready.

It's very different from Sweden and Finland in terms of their democracy, military capacity and readiness for fast tracking, but Canada is extremely supportive and has been for 15 years. I just wanted to make sure you knew that we will be—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Oliphant, I'm going to have to ask that you dispense with your question, because you're well over the three-minute mark.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

It's over, really? That's shocking.

Thanks, Vice-Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We now go to Madam Larouche.

You have a minute and a half.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Vice-Minister, there's a lot of discussion about the money recovered as a result of the sanctions on Russia. Should each country adopt legislation governing the funds recovered through sanctions, or should a central entity, such as the United Nations, take care of redistributing the funds with the specific goal of helping to rebuild Ukraine, which will be an important next step for your region?