Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 28th, 2022

[Heidi Hulan]

Support to women and women's organizations is integral to what we are doing in Ukraine and what we have been doing in Ukraine in recent years. It's particularly important in the context of our military training mission, for which there's been a real focus on gender and women in the armed forces. We've also invested in this domain in relation to programming on judicial reform in Ukraine, including appointments, and we support very actively the promotion of women to serve at the very highest levels of the Ukrainian system across the board.

I'll just close by saying that it's a real disappointment that there are no women at the border, but certainly, at the end of this conflict, women will have to be involved in every aspect of implementing what comes next.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

I'll try to squeeze in one more question.

Ms. Sunday, you commented, in reference to refugees, “People are getting out.” There was a fairly disturbing article in The Globe and Mail yesterday titled “Africans and Asians...subjected to racial discrimination by border guards”.

I know that eastern European countries have had some trouble with xenophobia and racism. I'm just wondering if Canada is expressing itself in terms of making sure that there are no discriminatory measures being taken against people of colour in terms of any policy in the theatre that's being operated right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Give a brief answer, please.

[Julie Sunday]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

We're working very closely with all of our like-minded countries, particularly the Five Eyes, to ensure that movement across that border is seamless for everyone who is entitled to leave. Certainly, we'll continue to do that to support exit for those wishing to depart.

Again, our overall assessment is that the borders are moving. There are very long lineups on the Ukrainian side, and we have been in discussions with Ukrainian border officials to look at ways that this can be expedited or that we can better support exit of individuals from Ukraine who are wishing to leave.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Ms. Sunday.

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

We have Mr. Chong, please, for five minutes.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to explore the whole issue of what the government's position is on the provision of lethal weapons to Ukraine and to clarify whether or not the February 14 announcement was an exception to the rule or whether the policy has changed.

Up to Monday, February 14, the day that the emergency powers were invoked, the Government of Canada's position was not to ship lethal weapons to Ukraine because, in the words of the Prime Minister, the solution was “diplomatic”, not military. On February 14, the government announced it would be shipping lethal weapons to Ukraine.

I want to clarify this important issue: whether or not the government is prepared to ship lethal weapons to Ukraine going forward, or whether that February 14 announcement was an exception to the previously stated policy.

[Sandra McCardell]

Mr. Chair, I'll begin with that, and then I'll turn to my colleague from National Defence to speak more fully on this.

What I would say is that the situation on the ground has evolved—and evolved quickly. I think when we last spoke to this committee we weren't even certain that a full invasion was really in the cards. As events have evolved on the ground, we and the rest of the world have evolved with that to understand how we can best support Ukraine and how we can do that in consultation with our allies to make sure that it has real impact. I think that fundamentally, as the needs evolve, we have been there at every stage to support Ukraine.

I will turn it over to my colleague from National Defence to perhaps speak specifically to that lethal weapons question, but I think that clearly the government has provided lethal weapons and has offered that real support to Ukraine and, as Ms. Hulan just said, is going through the full range of things that Ukraine has asked us to assist with.

General Prévost?

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Sure, I can jump in here.

First, I'll say that sending weapons to a country is not something simple, and it starts with what we have to offer. When we sent the last package, it was what we had to offer, what was on the shelf here. It's difficult to send.... There are many complexities here, but first of all, it's what's available. We did this, and I think we have to view this as a complementary effort. All allies provide what they can. There's an issue of interoperability. Is what we're going to provide here available for Ukrainians? Are they trained on it? If not, why send it? There are many nations at this time providing weapons that Ukrainians are familiar with.

I'll come back to what I've said since the beginning. What Canada has provided to Ukrainians over the years is training. That's what we're known for—providing good training—and we've been there all along, onside with them, for seven years.

Thank you.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

It's somewhat of a surprise that a comment was just made that when the department last appeared in front of the committee on February 3, the Canadian government wasn't sure if a full invasion was imminent. President Biden and the American intelligence community have been saying for months now that an invasion was going to take place, that all scenarios were anticipated. I'm somewhat surprised that the department wasn't sure whether a full invasion was imminent on February 3, only several weeks ago. That's one comment that I have.

This is for the Department of National Defence.

I'm wondering if there are any discussions going on between the department and the Pentagon about the new military co-operation taking place between the American administration and Scandinavian countries, such as those countries allowing U.S. military aircraft to be staged from their airbases, such as joint training missions involving U.S. bombers and Scandinavian military fighter jets. I wonder if Canada is involved with any of those discussions, because they relate to our Arctic's security and sovereignty as well.

[MGen Paul Prévost]

I'm not aware of any specific discussions on that.

I can say that we're in constant communication with NATO and NATO allies on all of those issues, on how we're going to continue to bolster the security in Europe, the eastern flank in Europe. I'm not aware if we're part of discussions with the U.S. and Scandinavia on any specific basing.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you for your testimony.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Major-General Prévost.

Thank you, Mr. Chong.

Mr. Sarai, you have five minutes, please.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

On February 27, just yesterday, the Minister of Transport, Omar Alghabra, announced that Canada has closed its airspace to Russian aircraft operators effective immediately. This was done in conjunction with other allies who have implemented the same measures. What impact will this have?

[Sandra McCardell]

Mr. Chair, as with other measures—different sorts of sanctions we've put in place—the impact of this will be both in its symbolism and its substance.

In its symbolism, I think there is no more clear expression to Russia of its isolation on the world stage than the fact that its aircraft are physically unable to travel over a wide range of countries. This is, in particular, a shocking development for those close to Putin, those enriched under his regime. For those who have used these flights to maintain an international lifestyle, this will bite.

The other aspect that will be important is that it has an economic bite on Russia. As Russia is unable to fly its aircraft, as it imposes—as it has with the U.K., for example—reciprocal measures which don't permit overflights of Russia, this will be a loss of significant revenue to Russia from those overflights.

The fact that Canada and other countries have put in place this ban certainly is a clear message to Russia that its actions are unacceptable and that it is becoming a pariah. On the other hand, it will bite directly into the economy in terms of their ability to generate revenue from their aircraft.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Are there reciprocal effects from this? Has Russia banned Canadian flights? Out of precaution, are Canadian flights, for example the Air Canada flight that goes from Delhi over Russian airspace to Toronto and Vancouver, using alternative routes?

[Sandra McCardell]

As of the time that I came to this committee, I was not aware of any reciprocal retaliation against Canada. Russia did announce it against the U.K. specifically. It would not be surprising if there were a similar retaliation.

I would say as well that Transport Canada has put in a notice to airmen for Ukraine. It is not my understanding, but we can clarify later, that one is in place for Russia at this point.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you.

Our Canadian office at the UN High Commission for Refugees told Radio-Canada that, according to estimates, more than 50,000 Ukrainians fled the country in the first 48 hours. What contingency planning, in terms of humanitarian assistance, has been done by the EU and its partners to prepare for the potential mass displacement of people within and beyond Ukraine borders?

[Sandra McCardell]

The vast majority of those fleeing Ukraine are going into Poland, but some are going into such other neighbouring countries as Romania. The Minister of Foreign Affairs was in touch with these countries in advance of the invasion, certainly specifically about Canadians who could arrive in these territories but also engaging these countries on what their needs would be. She is flying to Poland tomorrow to see for herself the situation on the ground and to engage with Polish authorities.

Certainly the European Union, given that Poland is a European Union country, will be a key lead on this, but they will do so with the support of the UN and with UN member countries, such as Canada.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Has the EU prepared to accommodate the thousands, potentially even millions, fleeing? Have they made contingency plans with regard to that? Is Canada able to help in any way?

[Sandra McCardell]

Through our embassy in Warsaw, we have been in regular discussion with the Polish authorities about their needs. We have people on the ground at one of the major crossing points in Poland to assess the situation.

Certainly until now Poland has been able to respond sufficiently. I think that has been partly through government and partly through the images of the real generosity of Poles in helping those coming over the borders, but this is a situation that is evolving. Needs will shift. Numbers are increasing. The important thing is that we will continue to be in touch with Poland and work with the European Union, which will be responsible in the first instance for backing this up. We're really live to the fact that women and children are coming over the border and need to be properly received.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Sarai and Ms. McCardell.

I will give the floor to Mr. Morantz for five minutes, after which, as members agreed, we will discuss a motion that was put forward.

Mr. Morantz, the floor goes to you.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There are widespread reports in Canadian media that some of Mr. Putin's top oligarchs have billions of dollars in Canada in Canadian assets. It would seem logical that if we wanted our sanctions to have an impact, we should be freezing those assets that are actually in our country.

Russian anti-corruption activists like Alexei Navalny have specifically identified and asked Canada to sanction these oligarchs. Why haven't we done that?

[Sandra McCardell]

We have sanctioned a number of the oligarchs closest to Mr. Putin. Even before this invasion, a significant number were sanctioned by us. In recent days we've sanctioned some of their family members to really increase the pressure around them—

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I hate to interrupt you, but I have limited time here. My question is focused on the issue of the freezing of Canadian assets. Could you address that?