Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 1st, 2023

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Webb, in 2022, Canada allocated more than $615 million for humanitarian food and nutrition assistance. According to the government, the assistance reached a record 128.2 million food-insecure people, an 11% increase over the previous year.

Since then, Canada has been providing development food assistance to support vulnerable people through national or subnational food and safety-net programs, such as school feeding programs and nutrition support.

Do you have any recommendations regarding Canadian humanitarian food and nutrition assistance?

I would appreciate it if you could keep your answer brief, because you can always provide a more thorough answer in writing, if need be.

[Steve Webb]

I'll make a couple of quick comments regarding that.

I think it's part of the package that Canada can offer the world, but it's coupled with our ability to be a sustainable and reliable supplier of food, because again, as I mentioned before, we're one of a few countries that are net exporters, and we do it in a very sustainable way.

To the previous round of questions, innovation is absolutely key to that. We are able to be more resilient in our production systems because of Canadian-made innovations that have happened here that have been adopted by producers in Canada and have allowed us to continue to grow production. We need to continue to invest in innovation.

It's not just how much we invest in innovation; it's also how we rethink the investments and partnerships between the public and private sectors to not only spark invention and catalyze innovation, and the last mile of getting it practised by producers is absolutely essential.

Food aid is part of a package that Canada can offer the world. I think it's a great component of the package, as well as how it relates to the nutritional piece. At GIFS, we have supported the development of emergency rations for refugees with all the vitamins and nutrition for a daily meal in a package, as well as other food systems through our partners at the University of Saskatchewan, so that they can be shippable and sustainable. However, that's just a component. The supply of food and the distribution of food are absolutely essential.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Webb.

If you have more to say, you can forward the information to the committee in writing.

[Steve Webb]

Thank you.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Legault, your network and reach are extensive. I know you play a central role in supporting Quebec's grain producers. As a member who represents a riding in an agricultural area, I'm delighted by the work you're doing.

I'd like you to describe how the war started by Russia is impacting the operations of grain farmers. As Radio-Canada highlighted in one of its reports, after the war began, Ottawa applied a 35% tariff to all Russian imports, including nitrogen fertilizer. Before the tariffs were imposed, 85% to 90% of the fertilizer used in eastern Canada was supplied by Russia.

Did the federal government consult with the various stakeholders before going ahead with the sanctions?

[Benoit Legault]

The simple answer is no.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

All right. That's pretty clear.

How have grain producers adapted to the sanctions?

[Benoit Legault]

It's well known that the farming community is resilient and always finds a solution. Farmers, like the input suppliers who support them, always find a way. It's been tough, but we've done it. We managed to get a hold of fertilizer in time for spring seeding in 2022. The tariffs were obviously a challenge. I just want to reiterate that the problem was really just the tariffs. The price of previously affordable high-quality fertilizer from traditional suppliers—mainly, Russia and neighbouring countries—went up. We didn't have any access to that fertilizer.

Some farmers may tell you that they made an effort to source fertilizer elsewhere, in order to support the government's geopolitical objectives. At the end of the day, that can always be done, but those other suppliers would probably be the first to say that those alternative supply sources aren't the same. Not only are they higher risk, but also, they are more expensive. If that's the case for all the alternative sources, choosing one over the other doesn't make much difference. They're all the same. Suppliers are managing to buy and resell the products, but farmers are always the ones having to deal with the price increase. That's what we are seeing today. The indicators show that farmers are paying more for their nitrogen supply in 2023 vis-à-vis traditional supply sources.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

That is why you're in talks with the federal government regarding possible compensation.

Is that right?

[Benoit Legault]

Those discussions took place, and compensation was paid out through agriculture programming focused on environmental sustainability.

I don't think that was the best solution for us, since they are two separate issues. Support that helps farmers put environmentally sustainable farming practices in place is certainly altogether different from support to address costs associated with geopolitical events like this one. The two things shouldn't be combined, and that's what happened. The money collected from the tariffs was put towards an environmentally sustainable agriculture program aimed at improving nitrogen performance in crop production in Quebec and eastern Canada.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We now go to MP McPherson. You have six minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today.

I do want to express that I am disappointed that we are not able to hear from the World Food Programme representative. Increasingly what we are finding—and this is of particular interest for the foreign affairs committee, I would say—is that those experts we want to hear from who are not located in North America but are located in other countries are not being able to participate. That is problematic. We've seen that in this committee, we've seen that in the Canada-China committee, and we've seen that in the international human rights subcommittee.

Therefore, somehow we need to come up with a way to be able to hear from those experts who are on the ground because, of course, this particular study is looking at the impacts of Russia's illegal invasion and illegal war in Ukraine and the impact it is having on food around the world.

The fact that we aren't able to hear from people from outside of Canada is quite problematic for me. I think it's something the committee and the chair and clerk will need to look at more closely.

I also want to take a moment to say that I am extraordinarily upset and disappointed that the Conservative Party has chosen this moment to do a concurrence debate in the House on Ukraine while all of us are here trying to find answers for this study, which is in fact from a motion that was brought forward from one of the Conservative members of this committee. I think pulling shenanigans like that is really disrespectful not only to the members of this committee but also to the members in the House of Commons today. That's not how things should be done.

I think Mr. Genuis, the person who brought that forward, knows that very well.

What I would like to do is ask some questions of our witnesses. I did have many questions for the World Food Programme because, of course, they're the ones who are dealing more with the need for increased food aid around the world right now.

I will say that the World Food Programme has stated that 345 million people are facing acute levels of food insecurity in 2023. As Mr. Webb pointed out, you can't have peace and you can't have development and you can't have sustainability if there is food insecurity.

Yesterday we had officials from the Regional Bureau—East and Horn of Africa and the Great Lakes visit Parliament. They echoed this notion, adding that many countries were facing food insecurity due to ongoing conflict and climate shock.

Mr. Legault and Mr. Webb, in your view, what countries are the most food-insecure? What are the principal causes of this food insecurity? To what extent is the war in Ukraine currently contributing to food insecurity in low-income countries?

Mr. Webb, perhaps we can start with you.

[Steve Webb]

I had an opportunity to chair a panel at the Global Business Forum with the former head of the UN World Food Programme, and the discussion we had was very illuminating.

Syria remains a mess. Afghanistan is a disaster in terms of its ability to provide food. This situation is not just the result of conflict but also because natural disasters have taken place in those countries as well. It's a growing problem all through that part of the world, and we're seeing these increasing challenges arise there.

One thing we are doing at the Global Institute for Food Security.... I know we're here in Saskatchewan, but we do have international partnerships to enable the transfer and training of staff and experts in countries to enable them to utilize the most advanced tools and technologies. We're able to help with training and with the development of capacity and infrastructure to enable these countries to increase their domestic food production. It will not be a replacement for importation, but it would further provide more resiliency in their systems.

Last week the Global Institute for Food Security ran a workshop on the application of technologies related to improving the rate of innovation in plant breeding, particularly for wheat, rice and canola in Bangladesh. That is technology that we're using and developing here for Canada, but we have the opportunity to do the same internationally, and through partnerships and collaboration, we can see that taking place.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Go ahead, Mr. Legault.

[Benoit Legault]

Obviously, grain producers are a little more focused on the reality facing farmers. As for the broader challenge of food security and what's happening in Ukraine, I would say it's seen more as something new.

I'll explain what I mean. Instability around the world is growing slowly. The war in Ukraine is another event in a series of events that the world has gone through. We went through a pandemic with COVID‑19. Climate change is happening faster, which is causing extreme temperature shifts. That is creating uncertainty in the windows for planting and pesticide application. Farmers are realizing that the war in Ukraine is another source of major instability.

The only thing I can convey to you today is how extremely worried young farmers in Quebec and Canada are. In Quebec and likely other countries like ours, the next generation is experiencing a crisis of confidence. Young farmers have to have confidence in order to take over Canada's family farms, in the face of significant instability and ever-emerging threats.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I'll let you know that the translation is not working particularly well. Both the English and French are at the same level, and I know that the translators are having a little bit of trouble with Mr. Legault's microphone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you for that. We will bring it up to make sure we can improve it.

We now go to the second round. For the second round, each member gets four minutes.

Mr. Aboultaif, you have the floor.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for appearing today.

Mr. Webb, how do you assess food security and food production levels in Canada?

[Steve Webb]

I think that one thing we have to recognize here in Canada as a nation is that we're a net exporter of food, but we do see food insecurity and food deserts in regions as well. We need to recognize that there's an opportunity for us when we look at northern communities and large cities about how we address food insecurity in those locales. From a global perspective as a nation, Canada is a net producer of food, so it's about getting the right food to the right places. It's a distribution challenge from a Canadian perspective, both here at home and internationally.

We should take advantage as a country of our ability to sustainably produce food and provide that not only here at home but internationally as well.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

Considering recent news articles highlighting how Russia targets Ukrainian food sources, what technologies can be used to aid crop growth to withstand the harsh conditions that war has created?

That's to Mr. Legault, and then maybe Mr. Webb would like to weigh in on it too.

[Benoit Legault]

I may not be the best person to talk about solutions that could help Ukraine. I will say, however, that Canada can work harder to meet the OECD's target for increased agricultural productivity, which the member mentioned earlier. I repeat, innovation is the only way to get there. There is a lot of focus on technology and efforts [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Can we move to Mr. Webb, please, on this?

[Steve Webb]

Thank you.

Regarding solutions for Ukraine, the biggest challenge is the fact that they're in a war zone, and the easiest solution to resolve the issue is to resolve the war in a successful outcome that enables us to have a world framework that allows us to continue to prosper and not create more problems globally.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Do you have any idea of how much of the farmland land mass has been affected by the Russian war on Ukraine?