Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 6th, 2023

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I have no further questions, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We'll now go to MP Oliphant. You have six minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have four things I'd like to raise.

The first thing is thanking officials at Global Affairs Canada headquarters and the people in the emergency watch and response centre who've had to step up. That's extremely important.

Also, I thank the people who have been brought in at missions in Ramallah, Tel Aviv, Cairo and perhaps elsewhere, such as Amman. It has been unprecedented. Thanks also to the folks at development, including those who have been working on all of these things. I think it's very important that parliamentarians thank officials for doing this. Thank you for being there.

The second thing is with respect to evacuations. About 600 people have been evacuated from Gaza. I might have missed it. Did you tell us how many were evacuated from Israel and the West Bank? Even approximately....

[Sébastien Beaulieu]

Yes. Out of Israel, it's 1,661. Out of the West Bank, it's close to 80, through Jordan.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Is there now a queue in the West Bank or Israel, or is it only the 200 or so you mentioned in Gaza?

[Sébastien Beaulieu]

The essence of the queue is related to Gaza, although we remain in contact with Canadians in the West Bank, if ever they wish to depart or need our assistance to do so.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I understand you're also preparing in Lebanon, in case there should be an enlargement of the conflict. Is that true?

[Sébastien Beaulieu]

Canada and a large group of international allies have indeed done some preparatory work and prudent planning, with the hope it will not be necessary.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you also for the engagement with DND and everybody else in order to get people out.

The third area I want to talk about is development and the humanitarian assistance that has gone in.

Can you expand a bit on what Canada's engagement is and the challenges you face? There was a four-day humanitarian pause. What was the helpfulness of that? What should we be attempting to know in the next phase, and how can we move on that?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

Certainly. Thank you.

May I begin by thanking you for the kind words? We will pass those on to our colleagues at the front lines, who have also been experiencing some trauma. These words are very much appreciated.

In terms of what Canada has done so far, the baseline development assistance provided to Palestinian populations in Gaza, the West Bank and adjoining regions is in the vicinity of $55 million per year. This is to assist with inclusive governance, gender equality, employment opportunities, etc.

Since the beginning of the crisis, as I said in my remarks, we've allocated, so far, $60 million to support humanitarian delivery and operations. This is done through partnership both with UN organizations and with civil society organizations on the ground. There's a lot of coordination that happens with other donor countries.

The important part is giving as much flexibility as possible to these organizations, because they know more than anyone where the greatest need is, and they can pre-position the aid.

One of the greatest obstacles has, of course, been the fact that there's been only one point of entry, the famous Rafah crossing, which traditionally was never designed for large amounts of commercial or humanitarian goods. It was a person crossing, if you will, with other points being used for commercial shipping and humanitarian assistance when needed. That's been a huge challenge because of the inspections needed of every truck going into Gaza. With international partners, what we're doing now is finding ways to accelerate it by maybe using other border crossings to help facilitate this.

The pause was extremely helpful. It provided life-saving assistance. What we need to see is a sustained cadence to continue bringing in aid, particularly fuel, medicine and food.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

The last point is on the day after.

What kind of work are you doing to look at the day after for Israel, and making sure it has safety and security and that Hamas is eliminated? What are you doing as well on the rebuilding of Gaza? Are you beginning to shape those thoughts?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

Thank you.

Of course, it is our job as officials to try to prepare for the future. We know right now that there is a phenomenal trust deficit between Palestinians and Israelis, between those warring factions. To conceive of a peace plan is almost unthinkable for the parties on the ground.

However, it is our job to think about it. It is our job to start talking to the middle-ground individuals who can foresee a day on which a path or political process brings parties closer, to give security guarantees to both sides—both feel extremely insecure right now—and to find other partners in the region. The solution is eventually going to have to be one that is regional, with support from international players. Canada very much counts on being, and believes it can be, one of those international players.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We will next go to MP Bergeron.

You have six minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses. I realize you're not in an easy position. Your presence here today and your presence on the ground in the countries involved are both challenging. I am so very grateful for everything you do.

Like many of my colleagues, I was a little surprised by what happened on November 9 at the UN General Assembly when Canada voted against a resolution condemning the illegality of the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Golan Heights and demanding that Israel respect the Geneva Convention, among other things.

Along with Israel, the United States, Hungary and four Pacific micro-states, Canada was one of the few countries that voted against the resolution. The move seemed to contradict Canada's traditional position. In 2020, Canada indicated that it doesn't recognize permanent Israeli control over the occupied territories, including the West Bank. Canada even agreed with the UN Security Council that settlements are a serious obstacle to achieving a just, lasting and comprehensive peace.

Why did Canada vote as it did?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

I'd like to comment on how we decide which way to vote.

Votes on the situation in the Palestinian territories happen every year. There are usually 14 to 18 of them in any given year. Certain principles underlie our approach to this issue.

One of those principles is that the text of the resolution must comply with international law. It must reflect the current dynamics on the ground as well as the dynamics and attempts to politicize some of these resolutions, essentially the dynamics at UN headquarters in New York. We always try to support votes that encourage the pursuit of a two-state solution, votes that are just and that avoid unjustly isolating the State of Israel. Unfortunately, because of the dynamics on the ground, many of these resolutions target Israel unilaterally and unjustly.

We have to weigh all those elements every year when we review our voting record. Sometimes small adjustments to the resolutions make it possible for us to go one way or the other. That, in a nutshell, explains why we vote a certain way.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I'd appreciate it if you could send the committee members the reasons for which you took that position.

I have a simple question for you. What did you see that France, the United Kingdom, Germany, Italy, Japan, Australia and New Zealand didn't see?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

I can't give you specific information about that, but we can provide you with a more detailed response later, if that's okay.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, that's nice of you.

Next to the United States, Israel is the state that gets the most export licences for military materiel and technology.

Are you following up to make sure that the weapons and technology we sell to Israel are not now being used against the civilian population in Gaza?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

First of all, what we have is an export control regime that takes into consideration the human rights situation in any given country. That's a major factor in decisions about granting export permits, especially for dual-use technologies. That work is done ahead of time.

We also have a framework agreement with the Government of Israel that covers everything related to co‑operation for defence.

I would say those checks are really done ahead of time. We're always very thorough about making sure who the end user of the technology in question will be, and we keep tabs on how the equipment is used, of course.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Given what's happening now, are certain export licences being reviewed?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

Every application is assessed on a case‑by‑case basis. Obviously, if products have already been sold and delivered, we can't re‑assess that after the fact. However, we can keep it in mind when we're looking at lessons learned.

What I can say is that every application is scrutinized in accordance with the principles I just described.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I have to admit I was surprised to hear you say that you weren't able to determine if Hamas's brutal acts on October 7 and the hostage takings were a violation of international law or not. Based on your response to one of Mr. Chong's questions, I don't suppose you're in a position to tell us if the Israeli blockade and the bombardment and displacement of civilians are a violation of international law.

Don't you have an international law unit?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Bergeron, you're now 30 seconds over your time. We also need to hear from the official, so I would ask him to provide a 15-second response.

[Alexandre Lévêque]

We do have an international law unit, and that's the type of evaluation it provides.

To be perfectly clear, the acts you described were abominable, outrageous and horrific.

My comment—