Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 13th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

As you recall, we were having discussions beforehand. There seemed to be some understanding that we will go until 5:30. Ambassador Rock has to leave at 5:45. One of the members wasn't here. That member came back. We were thinking of doing, if the members—

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Since we changed that to go back to 6:00, would it be possible to allow Mr. Aboultaif to have the full seven minutes he is entitled to?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

He never gets that. No one ever gets seven minutes. The highest you can go is six minutes. In any event, Mr. Aboultaif did go considerably over—a minute and a half over. He had five and a half, actually.

Is it the will of the committee to continue on with the witnesses until 6:00 or 5:30?

[Some hon. members]

Go until 6:00.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Okay.

Therefore, there is no committee business after that.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

However long it takes.... We have from 6:00 until 6:30.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I have a point of order.

I thought there had been a request to end at 6:00—not from our side, but from that side, for holiday parties.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

That's correct. I asked the other members if they were okay with it. They initially said yes, but now there seems to have been a change of plans.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I suggest the following. We have so many witnesses. We can ask witnesses questions until 6:00, then do committee business in camera for as long as it takes. We have until 6:30. It may only take five minutes. I think we're all feeling very amenable to getting—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Sure.

I would ask that, from now on and going forward, when members agree to something, they not change their mind after we commence the proceedings.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

There was no motion presented today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

There wasn't a motion. There were discussions. Mr. Hoback, you weren't in the room, but yes, there was agreement among other members.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

No, there wasn't. I wasn't here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

You weren't here, Mr. Hoback, but yes, there was. I personally spoke to members.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I was here when the meeting started. You did not, in the meeting time, come to the meeting and say, “We're going to change the itinerary.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

It was prior to your arrival. I spoke to members. I never said that was a motion, Mr. Hoback.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Then you don't have.... You have the agenda set—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Hoback, wait one second please. I never said there was a motion. I said I chatted with members. Then, everyone wanted to stay with the witnesses until six o'clock.

Is everyone okay with that?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Okay.

Why don't we do it this way?

Mr. Aboultaif, shall we say that you have another minute? Then we will go to the other members for six minutes.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

The question is for Ms. Blais.

Changing five foreign affairs ministers in six years.... Does that matter to the strategy of the department and foreign affairs policy, as far as Canada goes?

[Louise Blais]

The role of foreign minister is one based on relationships and experience. When they change constantly, it makes things more challenging. During the campaign for the UN Security Council, we essentially had three different ministers. When you have one who starts to have relationships with counterparts, then all of a sudden you have to change.... Obviously, the world of politics has its complexities and some things can't be helped.

I will go on the record to say that having some tenure in the role of foreign minister is key to success for a country like Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

MP Chatel, you have six minutes.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank our witnesses for attending, both in person and virtually.

I also thank you for your services, ambassadors. I'm very pleased that you took the time to come and meet us.

Mr. Rock, earlier you were talking about improving the quality of expertise inside foreign affairs, but also among diplomatic staff and those surrounding ambassadors. You were talking about two things. You talked about finding expertise, for example, through exchange policies, i.e., an exchange between people in private practice at university, for example, who have studied in the field, or also economically. You also mentioned the creation of an advisory committee made up of people with expertise. For example, in the case of China, we would need expertise in the various sectors that affect our relations with China.

Mr. Saint-Jacques, you were telling us that it would be better to rebuild solid in-house expertise, so to really focus resources on our internal capacity.

Ms. Isfeld, you talked about much the same thing. I'd like to hear from all three of you on this. Are we going to seek expertise internally through exchange policies?

I've worked for international organizations, and this was one of the measures used with members. It ensured that they had a lot of expertise and a very solid base internally.

Mr. Rock, Mr. Saint-Jacques and Ms. Isfeld, I'd like you to tell us about that.

[Allan Rock]

Thank you for your question.

Mr. Chair, the department's openness to the views of others is important. I'm thinking of the consultation processes.

A few years ago, the Department of Foreign Affairs devoted three days annually, in January or February, to receiving representatives from NGOs, universities, as well as experts on subjects related to the department. These people were invited to visit Ottawa and take part in discussions with senior departmental officials, to exchange views on the major projects and challenges facing Canada as a country. This is just one example of a possible approach.

There is another potential approach. The department, for a period of two or three years, could appoint consultants, so that they could pass on their expertise and give their point of view.

The aim of all this is to increase the sources of information available to the department so that we can gain a broader perspective on the complex world.

As you mentioned, madam, you've been involved in several NGOs with international accountability relationships. So you have valuable experience and perspectives to share.

My point was simply that remaining open to different points of view is healthy for the department and better for Canadian foreign policy.