Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 7th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm sorry; would you wrap it up in the next 10 seconds? Thank you.

Ms. Larouche, you now have the floor for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, I'll first talk about the use of French at Global Affairs Canada. Your plan for the future of diplomacy states the following:

…senior executives across the department should be held accountable for ensuring an equal use of French and a functionally bilingual environment as well as promoting francophone diplomacy, at headquarters and in the mission network abroad.

As you can imagine, it's a huge task. Just this week, an assistant deputy minister spoke only in English when addressing the committee, even when giving his opening remarks. The Prime Minister, at events abroad or before diplomats in Ottawa, speaks in English and uses French to synthesize his remarks, essentially. The Governor General, who sometimes represents Canada abroad, still doesn't speak French. Finally, some senior officials speak in English and use French simply for the sake of being polite at conferences or diplomatic events held in Ottawa.

Madam Minister, I'd like you to answer five questions about the use of French at Global Affairs Canada.

First, does your transformation policy provide exemptions for certain officials with respect to French, particularly deputy ministers and assistant deputy ministers? Will they be reviewed?

Second, will equal use of both official languages, as indicated in your document, even apply in Ottawa, whether for the Prime Minister, for you or for officials who participate in international events?

Third, is the mechanism for attaining senior positions at Global Affairs Canada—Le Devoir has repeatedly documented the discriminatory nature toward francophones when it comes to promotions—ancient history?

Fourth, can you tell us about the strength of French in diplomacy and why it should be an essential component of our strategy?

Finally, on what continents and in what perspectives could French be useful in terms of diplomacy?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Larouche.

We can both agree that the French language must always be protected. Global Affairs Canada is certainly one of my concerns, as former minister of Official Languages, a proud francophone and a proud Quebecker. I had the opportunity to discuss this several times with Mr. Morrisson and Mr. Chevrier.

The Official Languages Act applies to all departments, including Global Affairs Canada. The act was strengthened following the white paper I published when I was minister and the bill I introduced that my colleague Ginette Petitpas Taylor was able to bring to fruition. I'd like to thank her very much for that.

However, for too long, the Official Languages Act did not sufficiently address international relations. That's why we wanted to reform the act to rectify this and include recognition of the importance of the international Francophonie.

I agree with you that the fact that we're members of the international francophonie gives us access to dozens of countries with which we can have very constructive diplomatic relations, particularly in Africa and the Middle East, a bit in Asia as well, and certainly within the European Union.

So to answer your question, yes, it's an asset. Is it a strength we need to build on further? Absolutely. Does it make the people at Global Affairs Canada and me, as minister, extremely proud? Absolutely.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Could you wrap up your answer in 30 seconds?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Yes. It's because your question was very long, Ms. Larouche. There were four sub‑questions.

You also asked me if there would be exemptions for deputy ministers, but that's absolutely not the case. Deputy ministers must be bilingual and meet the obligations of the Official Languages Act. You and I, like all francophones, know that bilingualism in Ottawa and in the public service must never be taken for granted. We know that we must defend our rights, make our voices heard and ensure that it remains a priority. It's a priority for me and for my department.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Okay, thank you. I know it was a long question. I'll try to ask you a shorter one, but I have a number of questions for you.

I'd now like to talk about partisan appointments, Madam Minister. During the study, we heard from a number of witnesses who expressed concern about what might be called partisan appointments within Canada's foreign representations, sometimes qualifying their remarks by explaining the need for trusted appointments for very specific and strategic positions.

More recently, The Hill Times reported that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau ranked third among Canadian prime ministers who appointed the most former cabinet ministers, surpassed only by prime ministers Chrétien and Trudeau Sr. We recently learned that the Prime Minister had offered his former minister of justice a position in Spain, Marc Garneau turned down a position in France, Stéphane Dion is used for everything imaginable, Bob Rae is at the UN and John McCallum was in China before he resigned. Former Liberal MPs are regularly assigned to be representatives.

Your document explains the following: “Global Affairs Canada needs to promote and reward creativity, achievement and initiative, and create a culture that encourages intelligent risk‑taking.”

So what strategy do you follow when appointing people from the political world?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm afraid we're over time, so could you provide a response in 20 seconds? Thank you.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We can be proud to have very good ambassadors from our diplomatic network, whether in Washington, Beijing or Brasilia.

We can also be proud to have a very good diplomatic network in general. These are people who have a lot of experience and who are highly respected, whether at the Quai d'Orsay or at the Élysée in Paris, or at 10 Downing Street in Great Britain.

We also have a new ambassador to Denmark, a country with close ties to Greenland. We know that the relationship with the Inuit is a very important issue in Greenland, and Ms. Bennett has a lot of experience in dealing with indigenous communities, including the Inuit community. That's why I think this is a very good appointment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much.

We now go to MP McPherson. You have six minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for being here, Minister.

Thank you to David as well. I just learned that David was a good friend of my husband as a child, so this is a nice reunion for us today.

[David Morrison, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Just to confirm, her husband's not a child.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm going to ask you three questions, Minister, and then I'll have you respond to them at the end and give you some time for that.

I am going to ask some questions about the Middle East, and I'm going to start with our arms sales to Israel. I've asked Order Paper questions and have been given very substandard responses. I know the media are very frustrated. They're getting different answers at different times.

This is the first question. To be clear, has Canada been sending arms, and is Canada sending arms—whether they are military or non-military, whether it is technology, whether it's lethal or non-lethal or dual-use—to Israel?

The reason I'm asking that question is that with the ICJ investigation that says there is a plausible case of genocide happening, Canada could be complicit. I'm concerned that Canada could be complicit in a genocide if we are continuing to sell arms.

The second thing that I wanted to ask you about is this. I think I've been very clear that I was horrified by your government's decision to defund UNRWA—absolutely horrified. We know it is the only organization that can get life-saving support to innocent children in Gaza. That's very clear.

Your decision was made. It's now being reported by the CBC that Canadian officials had no information when they made that decision, and it was simply on the basis of information you received from Israel. I have deep concerns about that. Could you talk a little bit about how you justify that, and when we can expect that pause to be lifted so that the innocent children in Gaza aren't the ones who are suffering from the terrorist actions of Hamas?

That does bring me to Hamas. I have to say—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

If the members could attempt at least to demonstrate that the questions they're asking are somewhat relevant to Canada's diplomatic capacity via the machinery of GAC, that would be much appreciated.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Absolutely.

Yesterday we learned that Hamas was being sanctioned, and of course we're happy that this has happened. Hamas is a terrorist organization. They are responsible for untold suffering for Israeli and Palestinian people.

However, what we didn't see was the same sort of action on some of the very genocidal comments we've heard out of the very far-right Netanyahu government. The Minister of Defense called Palestinians “human animals”. The Minister of Agriculture stated, “We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba.” The Minister of National Security likened Gazan civilians to terrorists, saying that “they should also be destroyed.” The Minister of Heritage argued against providing humanitarian aid to Gaza, saying “there is no such a thing as uninvolved civilians in Gaza.” The Minister of Finance said, “We need to deal a blow that hasn't been seen in 50 years”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to interrupt. If you could you please try to make it relevant to the topic at hand, it would be appreciated.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

With all due respect, how we respond to other government officials is diplomatic. How we choose to sanction other government officials is a key diplomatic role of this government, and that is a very reasonable question to ask the government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

MP McPherson, that relevance is an elastic term, but let's try to frame it in the context of the topic at hand.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Yes, absolutely, and I can certainly bring forward some.... I just received a letter from the minister today in response to a letter I wrote to her in October that talks about the fact that diplomacy will help us with arms sales to Saudi Arabia. I can submit that, if you'd like. It is clearly diplomatic. Thank you.

My concern is that when we have people like this making these claims, saying these things about innocent civilians—and absolutely we need to sanction Hamas—when are you going to be sanctioning these government officials?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Thank you.

First, Heather, I know you've been to the region, and I was in the region as well. What is happening in Gaza is absolutely catastrophic. It's the worst place on earth to live right now, and I think Canadians know that. It is a heartbreaking situation, and meanwhile we absolutely believe that when it comes to the ICJ—to answer your question—we respect that the courts and parties need to make sure that they abide by the decision. I—

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Minister, that wasn't my question.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I'm sorry, Heather, but I'll continue.

I raised this issue with my counterpart because we all agree more humanitarian aid needs to go into Gaza. We all agree the violence must stop. We all agree we need to get to a hostage deal, which will eventually lead to a sustainable ceasefire, which will eventually lead, we hope, to a two-state solution. This has been Canada's position. I hope that's the case around this table and in the House of Commons among all parties.

Now, with respect to the question of UNRWA, I agree we need to provide humanitarian aid. We all do. There's an important investigation happening right now at the UN. My former colleague, Catherine Colonna, the former minister of foreign affairs in France, has been appointed. This is an important investigation, because the allegations are serious. That said, we absolutely, meanwhile, need to continue to provide humanitarian aid through different organizations. The Minister of International Development is in charge of that.

When it comes to arms, because you asked me that question, we all know about our arms trade system. We have one of the most robust in the world. I can tell you and those who are watching how it works. Canadian companies come to see the government to have export permits granted, so it is not the Canadian government sending weapons: It's actually the companies that come to see us.

What I can tell you is that there have been no weapons sent under my watch in recent years, and none since October 7. However, I—

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm speaking about non-military....

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I'll just continue. I was going to answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Minister, could I ask that you conclude your response in 20 seconds?