Foreign Affairs Committee on March 10th, 2026

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Then we don't feel—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you. We're out of time.

Next is MP Michael Chong.

You have five minutes.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to talk about Venezuela in the context of energy and in the great power competition between the United States and the People's Republic of China.

You mentioned in your opening statement and throughout your testimony that Venezuela sits on huge oil reserves. I believe they are the largest oil reserves in the world. I think almost a fifth of the oil reserves in the world are in Venezuela. You also pointed out that production plummeted because of the pillaging of oil resources by the Maduro regime.

My understanding is that China holds about $12 billion U.S. in Venezuelan debt and that China was being paid for that debt not with cash or money, but with discounted shipments of Venezuelan oil. I understand from reports that oil was discounted by as much as $20 a barrel by the Maduro regime to pay for China's loan to Venezuela. That flow of oil and those payments in the form of oil have obviously stopped.

Could you talk a bit about what the Government of Canada's assessment is in how this impacts the great power competition between the United States and the People's Republic of China in this hemisphere, particularly as it relates to Venezuela?

[Wendy Drukier]

That's a very interesting long-term question. Thank you for the question.

I believe your characterization of the situation and the relations between Venezuela and China is more or less accurate. I don't have all the details of the price at which they might have been selling the oil, but absolutely oil sales to China from Venezuela have stopped.

The Venezuelans, we understand, have considerable debt to China. How that will be repaid is yet to be determined. We can presume that it won't be a priority in the discussions between the U.S. and Venezuelan authorities.

I'm not an expert on great power competition. It's certainly not within my area of responsibility, but as a foreign policy observation, China tends to be very patient in terms of its long-term interests. We haven't seen specific measures taken by China toward the Venezuelan authorities to address the current situation or to try to cash out those loans, but that may be because it's only been a couple of months.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON]

I know that China has been characterized as such. I would say that we are a very patient country as well. We're the third-oldest continuous democracy in the world, and we've put up with this system for so very long because we are a very patient people in working with what we have—but I digress.

On the issue of oil, Venezuelan crude is heavy crude. It's similar to the heavy crude produced by Canadian oil sands companies, but it's also different.

Has the Government of Canada observed any change in patterns on our west coast with respect to the purchase of Canadian heavy crude from the Lower Mainland of Vancouver or otherwise because of the disruption in oil shipments from Venezuela to the People's Republic of China?

[Wendy Drukier]

This is a question well beyond my remit. I'm certainly not an expert on Canadian oil exports.

I can say that Venezuelan production has marginally increased since January 3. However, experts on this issue don't expect the production to significantly increase for probably a decade given the requirements for investment and repairs to oil infrastructure. We hear this from energy analytics firms like Enverus and ADI Analytics, and from independent experts as well.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON]

I have some more questions, but I think I'm running out of time, so I'll just defer them to the next round.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much.

We next go to MP Mona Fortier.

You have five minutes.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier—Gloucester, ON]

Mr. Chong, I almost feel like giving you my speaking time, because you're touching on some really interesting topics. That said, I'll ask my questions and, if I have any time left, I'll give it to you.

Ambassador, I would like to understand your role and that of the Organization of American States. I think many people would be curious to know what you could tell us about the situation we are currently seeing.

I saw that an initial statement had been made by the Organization of American States. However, were there any meetings? Have you proposed any approaches since then? I believe there was a meeting of the Organization of American States on January 21. Could you tell us more specifically how the Organization of American States is following the situation in Venezuela?

[Stuart Savage]

It's a very good question.

Of course, our eyes and ears are open for issues relating to Venezuela all the time. Things evolve. The OAS itself has a potential role to play if and when we can get to a willingness within Venezuela to move towards a democratic transition.

Canada would be willing to use the tools available through the OAS, such as technical assistance in organizing elections and eventually election observation missions, to ensure elections are free and fair, when and if that time comes. In the meantime, we've been working with such bodies as the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights to follow and monitor the situation there, read the reports and make sure that the information is shared and socialized more broadly among the OAS membership.

We just had, as a matter of practice, our biannual dialogue with the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights. Their rapporteur for Venezuela spoke, and we had a good exchange on their perceptions there and the desire, which Canada supports, to have the commission go to Venezuela to do an on-site visit to verify the human rights situation on the ground. It's something that has not been possible for the last 20 years, and we continue to look at ways of supporting that initiative.

At this time, following the discussion on political prisoners last month, we are starting to look toward what we might do in the future. In particular, we are discussing with partners—including the United States, Brazil and Mexico—areas of constructive collaboration where we can work together. We continue to work on that, but I have nothing specific to report, other than that we continue those efforts now.

Of course, we also maintain close touch with the Secretary General of the OAS, who has the capacity to offer his good offices to work with contacts within the regime and with other players in Venezuelan society. He has, for example, met with María Corina Machado to discuss her views of the future, and there are other ways in which he can help facilitate dialogue, which we support.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier—Gloucester, ON]

Michael, I'm going to give you the rest of my time.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON]

I want to continue the discussion a bit more about oil and sanctions.

As you pointed out, over 100 individuals in Venezuela have been sanctioned, including Madam Rodríguez, and those sanctions remain in place.

The Prime Minister indicated in his trip to ASEAN, but also elsewhere, that he wants to see Canada become an oil and gas superpower. There is Canadian expertise in precisely the kind of heavy crude deep-sea extraction taking place in Venezuela. Chevron is involved in Canadian deep-sea oil extraction in the Hibernia and Hebron oil fields off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador. Presumably there are Canadians, not just at Chevron but also at Exxon Mobil, Imperial Oil and Esso, who are experts at deep-sea heavy crude extraction, but the sanctions remain in place.

What is the Canadian government doing to ensure that we have an opportunity to be involved in rebuilding the Venezuelan oil sector, while at the same time making sure that people are not contravening the sanctions regime that has been put in place? Maybe you could talk a bit about what's going on there.

[Wendy Drukier]

I can give a few responses. They may be partial, as I'm not an expert on the oil sector either.

The sanctions that Canada has on Venezuela are on individuals within the regime. If any Canadian or Canadian company would like to operate or would operate in Venezuela, there would not be a sanction on the oil sector per se. There are U.S. sanctions on the sector, and they provide licences for certain companies to become involved. For the moment, they have only provided those licences to U.S. companies, although that may change.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON]

What if there are Canadians, for example, working at Chevron or Exxon Mobil here in Canada or Imperial Oil who are being asked to go down there to work and communicate with the office of Delcy Rodríguez, who is under sanction? How does that all work? How do we ensure that Canadians aren't going to be captured by the Government of Canada's sanctions regime, while at the same time ensuring that you're fulfilling the Prime Minister's commitment that Canada become an energy superpower, particularly an oil and gas superpower?

[Wendy Drukier]

For specific details on how to ensure that companies or individuals are not violating sanctions, our advice would always be for them to consult legally and consult the department.

I'm not the expert on exactly how that works. I do know that these individuals are sanctioned, which means that no Canadians can benefit economically from their relationship with them. There are certain rules in place about bank accounts and so on, but it's—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON]

Is the involvement of Canadian oil and gas expertise a consideration in the government's path to the normalization of relations, including the lifting of sanctions?

[Wendy Drukier]

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I can answer that question adequately, not being a sanctions expert.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you.

We will conclude by thanking both witnesses for their appearance and testimony before the committee.

I will now suspend the meeting to go in camera to deal with a few items. We are ahead of schedule, so it should be good. Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]