Foreign Affairs Committee on Sept. 25th, 2025

[Ty Curran]

I don't know that I have a definitive list, but I would say that I think we've recognized the importance of investments in counter-drone capabilities. I think there is absolutely a need for increased air defence capability. Listing the top three, those two would certainly jump out at me right away. I think we've seen a significant increase in drone warfare as part of the war in Ukraine, which underlines the need for investments across the alliance in those capabilities.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you.

What additional Canadian contributions have allies requested from us?

[Ty Curran]

My understanding of the list of requirements is that it's a classified list. Perhaps I could return to you if there is an unclassified ability to provide that information.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you. That would be appreciated.

Did allied ISR produce indications and warnings of these overflights early enough to queue shooters? If not, what latency points produced a delay?

[Ty Curran]

Given the tight geographic space between Russia and our eastern allies, while we, NATO, have the ability to track these drones or planes, their timing doesn't always leave us the ability to have forces in the air all the time, especially given the activity going on in Ukraine. We have the ability to watch that and to respond if we deem it to be a threat.

I'll leave it there.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you.

Precisely what Canadian assets have been committed or offered to reinforce NATO's eastern flank after these incursions and with what deployment timelines?

[Ty Curran]

At this point, we have not provided additional forces, although, as mentioned earlier, we are significant contributors to deterrence on the eastern flank as part of our contribution to Latvia.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

What near-term remedial action such as deployment sensors or software are being executed in the next 90 days?

[Ty Curran]

Unfortunately, I don't believe I have the answer to that question.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

Okay. If you do find some information, perhaps you could send that to the committee. It might be classified, but if it's not classified, that would be helpful.

[Ty Curran]

I'd be happy to.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you.

What additional authorities or resources are being requested from the department to enact the government's response?

[Ty Curran]

At this point, we have not made additional requests to the government there. It's part of our discussion with NATO about what sorts of capabilities Canada is able to provide, recognizing that we continue to provide support in Latvia for deterrence as well as air defence support here through NORAD.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

Am I close to time, Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

You still have one minute and 20 seconds.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Middlesex—London, ON]

I'll cede my time for now.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much.

We will next go to MP Blair.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome and our thanks to all of you for presenting yourselves here today.

I note, Ty, you said that you didn't want to speculate on what the Russian motivation is, but I think we could speculate a little bit that they were both testing our capabilities and testing our resolve. Given the reaction, in particular by President Trump, President Zelenskyy, the EU leadership and what we've heard from Prime Minister Tusk and others most recently in response to this, I would like an assessment from all of you on what impacts this probing by Russia has had on NATO resolve. We talked about investment, so it's a matter of declaration or resolve but it's also what that can mean for the next steps.

[Eric Laporte]

Mr. Chair, maybe I could start.

I think the question of NATO resolve is pretty strong here. We had in the summer a summit amongst allies where we all agreed to increase defence spending to 5% of GDP by 2035. President Putin has always wanted NATO to go away. I think by his invading Ukraine and antagonizing European allies, he actually has created a much stronger NATO, and that's why we're agreeing to 5% of GDP for defence spending.

I think the events over the past weeks will only strengthen European resolve to build the capabilities, get the capabilities to counter drones and to increase the defence capabilities. From an alliance perspective, this is a moment when allies are stepping up and will continue to do so to ensure their security going forward.

[Ty Curran]

Perhaps I could add to that, Mr. Chair.

The question of resolve is absolutely an important one. I would say that resolve is also backed up by the concrete commitments that NATO is making to the eastern flank to provide that deterrent effect, including what Canada has done with our forces in Latvia.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I would also note that the SACEUR has made it very clear that he has the existing capabilities, but we also are aware that it does require additional investment. There's also a bit of a challenge. For example, we've invested fairly significantly in surface-to-air anti-missile technologies and capabilities for our forces in Latvia, but that's a very expensive response, using a $200,000 missile to knock down a $5,000 drone.

We're also seeing in the Ukraine-Russia conflict drones now having expanded capability with ranges of 3,000 kilometres and significant additional payloads.

In his speech to the UNGA, President Zelenskyy indicated their willingness to share their learning and their technologies with other NATO countries. He frankly offered an invitation to those of us who want to work closely with them. I think Canada was a very early adopter in that relationship. Perhaps you could provide any update or even just an indication of our willingness to engage in such activity.

[Ty Curran]

You're absolutely right. The Ukrainians are at the cutting edge of drone technology and counter-drone technology, specifically because of the challenges you identified about using multi-million dollar platforms to knock down cheap, mass-produced drones.

One of the things that are quite exciting is the build with Ukraine program that Ukraine announced recently. Canada is working with Ukraine to...and Canada signed a letter of intent over the summer to potentially do joint ventures with Ukraine, which would provide the ability to manufacture Ukrainian drones here in Canada, benefiting, we hope, Canadian industry as well as, eventually, the CAF.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

The last question I want to ask is tangentially related to the drone incursions over Poland quite recently.

In June of this year, many of our very close allies in NATO, as well as Ukraine, withdrew from the Ottawa convention with respect to land mine prevention. All the Baltic states, Finland and Poland, as well as Ukraine, have now withdrawn from that convention. In my opinion, it does place our deployment in NATO—particularly in Latvia, one of the countries that has withdrawn—in a somewhat challenging relationship.

How would you see Canada navigating that going forward? It's not a contradiction, but it can be a challenge for us because there are other conventions or values that we've put forward that could be challenged in how our neighbours and friends in NATO, particularly on the eastern flank with Russia, may have to respond to that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Give a brief response, please.

[Eric Laporte]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The threat posed by Russia has compelled a few allies to take extraordinary measures to counter Russia, including withdrawing from the Ottawa convention, which we regret. However, we remain very much wanting to work with them and to ensure their security, their safety and the safety of our personnel. I understand that there are CAF measures in place to be able to continue to work with our allies, those who have left the Ottawa convention and those that are in—