Evidence of meeting #17 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was job.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
We will have to get very quick answers. I did say that speaking time included both the questions and the answers.
12:20 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
How many minutes do I have?
12:20 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
I can try to answer, but these are very complex questions.
In answer to your question about whether we have enough staff to deal with requests to get involved in elections, I can tell you that our system of regulations requires people to submit their application form 30 days in advance. When that deadline is met, we do have enough time.
Unfortunately, many people are unaware of the requirements of that system, and that's why we receive a great many requests at the last minute. We don't want to punish people, and we have tried to answer their requests. What we can say is that when everything comes in at the last minute, we clearly do not have enough staff. On the other hand, if people meet the 30-day deadline, our staff is adequate to handle these requests.
We are under a lot of pressure from people wanting to be candidates in municipal elections. I'm not talking only about Ontario; there are other provinces as well. We receive approximately 25 requests at the last minute. It's difficult. We have a process to follow. For now it is more a matter of being in transition than it is a staff issue.
As regards recruitment in the public service, under the priority system, all candidates, even if they come from a minister's office, must be qualified for the job. We have taken certain steps inside the public service to provide additional clarification with respect to job qualifications and requirements. All applications must be reviewed based on these requirements.
As regards audits relating to non-partisanship, we want to move more slowly, because this is an area where there are no clear rules. We proceed more on a case-by-case basis. We want to gain greater experience in this area. At the present time, the system is based on complaints, guidelines and general directives.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
October 3rd, 2006 / 12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Good morning, and thank you for coming.
On page 83 of the report you have a little bit of an explanation of the appointment to these phantom positions. If it says what I think it says, I'm outraged, but I'm not sure if I'm reading it correctly. I'm wondering if you could just explain a little bit better to me this process, or what went on. My understanding is if there are phantom positions being created, more than just the person who was involved in this would know about it. Maybe you would explain the process of a phantom position--how a phantom position comes available. Without naming names, explain just how that might happen and who would have to be involved in order for a phantom position to be created.
12:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
Very simply, it's the department that has to create the position, so obviously people in human resources would have some knowledge, and it's the deputy minister who had to approve these.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
All of a sudden we have the administrative side, the deputy minister, all complicit in breaking the law.
12:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
In my opinion, it was inappropriate. In their opinion, they felt it was justified at the time.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Were these phantom positions at any point run through the payroll system?
12:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
That's a good question. It would have been set up to be paid, because it would have to be when you create a position. But these people were not receiving two paycheques, if that's where you're going.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
No, I hope not; otherwise I think we'd be even more outraged.
12:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
I would be more outraged too.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
I'm outraged already, knowing that not only do we have one person trying to deceive the system, but we have everybody else in compliance.
How far does this go? Are we talking about the deputy minister? Are we talking about possibly the minister knowing about this? In your investigation, was there any possibility that the minister would have been aware of what was going on?
12:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
In the investigative process that we ran, we talked to all the people who we felt could explain to us how the position was created.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
12:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
We did not speak to the ministers.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
In your inquiry, did anybody indicate that the minister was aware of the situation?
12:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
Without going back through all those records, I cannot honestly say that I actually have that kind of—
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Would you go through the records and report back to this committee? I think it's the will of this committee that we know if the minister was compliant.
12:25 p.m.
An hon. member
Absolutely.
12:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
We will go back and check the kind of evidence we have. We did not, as I say, speak to ministers. I was reluctant to bring forward anything that I thought was hearsay, so we will go back and check to make sure there was more than hearsay.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Where would we go next? How would we proceed with an investigative process that would lead to the previous ministers being interviewed? Would we have to bring them to this committee? Would that be an appropriate measure?
12:25 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
That's really up to the committee to decide.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative