Government Operations Committee on Oct. 17th, 2006

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

In the new strategic infrastructure fund, many of the projects that have been awarded by the previous government are coming in over budget. We have virtually every water and sewer treatment project and the big six cultural projects in Toronto, all over budget. And we have--

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

I'm talking about this specific project. In this specific project there could be cost overrun implications?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We have the Olympics in Vancouver, overrun. We're just trying to make sure that--

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

I appreciate your concern, but can we just stick to the topic that we're discussing, Minister?

With respect to this particular project, on your actions, first of all, you indicate this file was received by you very late in this particular matter. But are you also comfortable that there was no breach of confidentiality when your staff leaked out components of the contract to the media?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I don't believe there was any breach of confidentiality.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

Why was that leaked? Why did you feel it was necessary when the procurement process is strictly between the municipal government and the company that was responsible for that project? Why did you feel you had to intervene and provide information to the media when it was not in your jurisdiction?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

They were asking for $200 million of federal money. I think $200 million--

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

They weren't asking you. This was committed to already by the Treasury Board. And this was contingent--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

No, you're wrong there. This issue had never been before the Treasury Board.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

The amount had not been committed by it? There was no commitment made by the government?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

There was a political promise made a month before the election in 2004. This issue had never--

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

It's a joint agreement of the federal, provincial, and municipal levels of government.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

This issue had never come before the Treasury Board until the 28th of September.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

It had never come before the Treasury Board? There was no commitment made for this?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

This issue had never come before the Treasury Board.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Brampton South, ON]

Okay, and you felt it necessary to intervene, and you realized that there would be local implications by your actions?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I'm not supporting any candidate municipally. I do know there is one candidate who is running for mayor who is a prominent Liberal; another candidate for mayor worked for Mr. Martin in the Liberal campaign in the last election; and the third major candidate was head of the Laurier Club for the Liberal Party. I don't have a horse in this race, sir.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Five minutes is up.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I hope that this discussion is at an end.

I tried to be patient, but this has nothing to do with the item on our agenda. I am happy to be accommodating, but we have two meetings on this issue and not four.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Than you, Madam Chair.

Minister, I would like to welcome you and your officials from Treasury Board.

Certain information has come out following the $1billion worth of cuts, but beyond those cuts is the fiscal imbalance. Under the Canadian Constitution, Quebec and the other provinces are responsible for health care services, education, income support, social services and municipalities.

I find it tragic that the attitude of the current Canadian government is similar to that of the previous government, whose ties were a different colour. For the past 24 years, our deficit and debt have been decreasing. I would like the Treasury Board and the Department of Finance in this current government to shift their focus so that much of the surplus, whether we are talking about one-third or two-thirds, would be used to deal with certain problems in Quebec and Canadian society.

The textile industry, for example, is a major issue in some regions. There is also the soft wood lumber industry, but that is another story. Some segments of the population are having difficulties. One example is the need for an assistance program for older workers. The federal government has some flexibility to help vulnerable sectors of society.

There is a total surplus of $13 billion, and some of the cuts affect very sensitive areas.

I understood your message, when you have made comments in question period or elsewhere, about the court challenges program. You said that the federal government will always respect the Canadian Constitution and there is no point in having a program that allows people to take the federal government to court.

You know very well, minister, that in certain cases, such as the administration of French schools in Ontario or Saskatchewan, which I know better, the problem was not the federal government but rather the provinces that were not complying with the Canadian Constitution.

How will parents' groups be able to challenge political decisions made by the provinces and made by an education department, in order to require the provinces to comply with the Constitution? If I remember correctly, when Mr. Mulroney was prime minister, he abolished the court challenge's program and then reinstated it because he realized that he had make a mistake.

How are you going to resolve the problem of the fiscal imbalance, taking into account the current and future surplus? On the question of court challenges, why not allow francophones in Canada, in special cases like school administrations, to use that support to make sure that the provinces honour the Constitution?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I appreciate your comment, but it was former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien who restored the program, and not the former conservative government.

Your comments are interesting. I agree with you when you say that you want the Canadian government to give money to lawyers to challenge provincial laws. That is interesting. I did not think that the Bloc would hold that view.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I would just like to clarify a few things, minister.

If any people, group or minority suffers injustice, the Canadian state must show that it is willing to help people rattle provincial governments, which are also part of the machinery of government, and tell them that they are not complying with section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Under that provision, school administration comes under the authority of groups like the Fransaskois, Franco-Ontarians and Acadians.

That kind of exercise made it possible to start fighting assimilation once again. For example, one illustration of that is the Montfort Hospital. You know that file better that I do, since you were in the provincial cabinet at that time. The province had not acted fairly. In that kind of situation, a court challenge is needed so that people who do not have enough financial resources, unless they work with the government, can rein in provinces that do not respect the law of the land.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

That is interesting. You are talking about issues that are close to my heart. It is very important indeed that government representatives, ministers, assume their responsibility for protecting minorities.

When I was a member of the Ontario Government, we established, for the first time in Canadian history, a system of funding equity and education for both young francophones and young anglophones. We created 12 French school boards, catholic and even public school boards, in every region of the province. That was the greatest victory for the Franco-Ontarian community in Canada's entire history.

I was not the minister responsible for francophone affairs when an independent commission handed down its decision on the Montfort Hospital, and when I was the minister, the issue was closed. I was the one who called Gisèle Lalonde to tell her that the government was planning to appealed the decision because it took its responsibilities seriously.