Government Operations Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2006

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you, Sir.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I would like to ask a question myself.

We're the government operations and estimates committee, and we've looked at the supplementary estimates and we see that you're cutting about $250 million at this point; that's about one-quarter of this $1 billion.

I also know that on a regular basis there are programs that end. If they end at the end of this fiscal year, then those cuts will not show anywhere next year if they're not brought back. Do you have any kind of list of programs that will be allowed to die, which we will not see next year in next year's estimates or in supplementary estimates and therefore will not be able to question?

[David Moloney]

There are three parts there that I could speak to.

Number one, as the chair mentioned, is that the supplementary estimates have included for parliamentarians' information those aspects of the restraint measures that mean that spending of $220-some million that was previously requested of Parliament will not proceed. Some of the measures that have been identified here were against planned spending for which in fact Parliament had not been asked for authority but for which it had been planned to set money aside. That's thing number one.

Thing number two is, I don't have it with me, but it would be possible to provide a list of programs that have funding that would end as of March 31, which, as the chair will know, we refer to as “sunsetting programs”. There is no separate list, to my knowledge, of programs for which there had been a decision taken to not continue. Had there been, that would be part of this exercise, if there had been a policy decision to not continue at this point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Is it possible for you to give us that list of sunsetting programs, those programs that are sunsetting at the end of this fiscal year?

[David Moloney]

I believe we can provide that list relatively quickly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Albrecht.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to each of the officials for your time here today.

I too, like Mr. Kramp, operated a small business for a number of years and also served on a number of community volunteer organizations, and I know how important it is that we occasionally evaluate and make some hard decisions about stopping some programming we have started. It's always nice to start new programs, and we're happy to do that, but it's more difficult to stop them when it comes time to.

I think, with respect to the $1 billion savings we found, that Canadian taxpayers should actually be quite pleased that our government is taking a serious approach to cost containment at this level.

We're living in a dream world, Mr. Martin, if we think we can keep spending with no adjustments and no realistic evaluation of programs. That dream world very quickly turns into a nightmare, as we found in Ontario under Mr. Rae.

I'd also like to correct an impression Mr. Martin gave us that perhaps this was an ideologically driven cut. Our staff here today clearly outlined that there are formal evaluations that each department does on an annual basis for the purpose of finding potential effectiveness gains, as they are doing today.

And I would like to point out that there are at least two new programs that Human Resources and Skills Development has initiated. One of them deals with increasing the pool of skilled workers, and the other has to do with utilizing the wisdom and the years of older workers.

I wonder whether we can highlight the fact that, yes, we did make a $1 billion cut, but that we're also reinvesting a lot of the funds we're saving, as we have pointed out a number of times today. This was a commitment in our budget that some of the $5 billion increase would be found within savings, and it would be nice to highlight for Canadians the initiatives that are being taken on the skilled trades front and the older workers front, if you could speak to them.

[Janice Charette]

I mentioned in my opening remarks that the department is responsible for implementing the new apprenticeship incentive grant. That will provide a $1,000 grant to first- and second-year apprentices, and the total expenditure expected there on an annual basis is in the range of $25 million.

I believe the second program that I mentioned the department is implementing is the targeted initiative for older workers, which will be a federal-provincial-territorial program in which the federal government has indicated it's prepared to invest up to $70 million, to be cost-shared with provinces and territories. That will be invested in older workers who lose their position as a result of layoffs, particularly in vulnerable communities. The objective is to be able to invest in employment programs, services, and retraining for those individuals to enable them to continue to work, in new employment opportunities.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I would like to comment that I think this list goes against the perception that there's a lack of compassion. We are certainly working hard to address the needs of Canadians on many different fronts.

The other area that I think we've overlooked today is that recently our government announced the $13 billion paydown on debt. There will be an annual savings of $650 million, every year from here on going forward, that we can invest in effective new programming.

That was more of a comment than a question.

[Janice Charette]

Madam Chair, let me correct what I said to Mr. Albrecht. When I spoke about the apprenticeship incentive grant, I said it was going to be a $25 million annual expenditure. In fact, in the year of introduction it's $25 million, and then it's expected to be over $100 million a year after that. I apologize for that.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

So it's an expanding program?

[Janice Charette]

Yes, it's ramping up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Is that it?

We will go to Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to build on a point Mr. Kramp alluded to.

Ms. Charette, how big is the Human Resources budget?

[Janice Charette]

The planned spending, which is indicated in the report on plans and priorities for 2006-07, is $79.7 billion.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

And how much were the cuts to the youth program?

[Janice Charette]

The youth employment strategy reduction in 2006-07 is $10,400,000.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Percentage-wise, how much is that out of the budget?

[Janice Charette]

You'll have to give me a minute with a calculator. I have to apologize. I can't do that in my head.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I think it's less than 0.3%. I just did it in my head.

[Janice Charette]

I can do the math, if you'd like.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I came from the private sector. Every year at the end of the year, if we were not at our target of profitability or cost, we would go through a cut exercise. This was a private corporation, not government. Private corporations have the option of laying off people or cutting some expenditures that they think they can find efficiencies in, like less travelling and more video conferencing or finding other opportunities that are identifiable for cost-cutting. That's what the private sector typically selects.

This is less than 0.3% of the budget. At least, whatever number it is, it's less than 0.5%. In my riding, though, it affects close to 36 youths, and not only for the summer term but in fact for their professional careers, because I think the summer employment that they benefit from will have an impact on their future, on their careers.

If this $10 million is cut in the name of a focus on targeting, is it going to be redeployed toward youth employment, but in a different format?

[Janice Charette]

I believe the question at the end was what the impact of the $10 million decision will be. The answer is that the funding available for the summer career placement program will be reduced in 2006-07 by $10.4 million, and in 2007-08 by $45 million.

To use 2007-08 as an example, the remaining funding will be $45 million, and that funding will be retargeted, as I tried to explain earlier, but perhaps not adequately. It will be aimed at students who face particular barriers in finding jobs, such as those in rural, remote, and high unemployment regions; and at individuals who may face particular barriers, such as new Canadians. Individuals will have the opportunity to apply against those criteria, through a call for proposals that will be launched in January.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

It will be difficult for us to really evaluate the replacement or the new focus if we still don't even know what the new focus is going to be. I know you're setting the criteria for us, what you expect the focus to be, but we're still not sure how it's going to be rolled out or how it's going to be implemented. Is that a correct assessment?