Government Operations Committee on Nov. 9th, 2006

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

Mr. Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Minister, I have a few small comments to make. Earlier, when you spoke of the savings that could be achieved by changing procurement processes, you said that the previous government had pulled numbers from thin air. If you are referring to Treasury Board and the Department of Public Works and Government Services of Canada, I do not believe they were inventing numbers. There must certainly have been recommendations, studies by economists, experts in the field, to lead them to conclude that such savings could be achieved and the ways to do it could be found. In any case, I greatly appreciate your statements of good intentions, of good will, and I hope they reach the lower ranks of your department, so as to be applied in the day-to-day work.

Mr. Minister, could you tell us how much money has been spent by your Department up to now, since January 2006, on public opinion surveys? That’s part of your department’s mandate.

[Michael Fortier]

Since February, since we’re in power?

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Let’s say since—

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

If you will allow me, I will ask Mr. Bennett to answer this question. I don’t have this information at my fingertips.

O.K.

[David Marshall]

Madam Chair, I'm afraid I don't have that number exactly at my fingertips, but we will be able to get it for you.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Would you be kind enough to submit it through the clerk?

[David Marshall]

Yes.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

At the same time, Mr. Marshall, what is your department's attitude or understanding with regard to syndicated polls, or is there a policy?

[David Marshall]

In terms of syndicated polls, we would encourage participation in order to reduce costs for a government department that needed the information. And we certainly watch to ensure that these are not partisan political involvements. I think that's pretty much a policy that we have.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Minister, the question period is about the procurement of services. We’re going to widen the subject a bit to include office space, buildings, etc. in services.

A few months ago, your government entered into a review of the policy on the sharing of procurement contracts, in the National Capital Region, between the Ontario side of the river and the Quebec side. Before you leave, I will give you a copy of the motion I had tabled in November 2005, motion M-316 that I am certain you know well, to the effect that the calculations are based on the wrong numbers. I don’t mean that the numbers are false, but that all the numbers about Government of Canada-related jobs were not included in the calculations.

I give you the example of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, of Canada Post, of the various museums that are not included in the calculations of the Department of Public Works and Government Services because the latter is not in charge of finding them premises. Moreover, Treasury Board does not consider these bodies as coming under its rule, so that employees of these Crown corporations or agencies do not report to Treasury Board as their employer.

Could you please tell us where you are regarding the sharing of contracts between suppliers on both sides of the river, a division that will be set, one hopes, at 75%-25%? You made a decision that had an enormous impact on the balance wanted when you proceeded to lease, or rather purchase, the JDS Uniphase building for all sorts of reasons that seemed good to you. So, where are we?

[Michael Fortier]

Let’s begin at the end. With regard to this property, we did a call for bids.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Excuse me, Mr. Minister, but the Auditor General did not find that the way you proceeded constituted a public call for bids.

[Michael Fortier]

If you will allow me, I will answer your question.

The procedure is called a contract award notice. It is a very useful tool, because it allows all the competitors to know exactly what the customer—in this case, the Government of Canada—wants and the data that needs to be taken into account when purchasing and leasing property., You are aware of it, since you noted it, but I would like to stress that I doubled the period during which the contract award notice was in effect.

I’d like to get back to your question about the balance of land ownership. Mr. Proulx, you were part of the party in power, and what I inherited as Minister of Public Works and Government Services—our friends from the Bloc Québécois often refer to fiscal imbalance, and we speak of it too—is a great real estate imbalance. You had 13 years to resolve it. I therefore inherited a distribution of 77%-23%, and now you ask me to consider the geographic location of Crown corporation buildings. The fact that we don’t take the real estate property of the Canada Post Corporation and other Crown corporations into account, is not a whim. This is the way it is because during your government’s administration, you decided that in terms of governing, these corporations would be dealt with at arm’s length.

We have to exclude these corporations from our calculations because we can’t say on one hand that the Canada Post Corporation is autonomous, and on the other hand tell it to set up its offices on the corner of First Avenue and Twelfth Street in L’Ancienne-Lorette. That makes no sense. These corporations operate at arm’s length or they don’t.

However, because I know what you’re getting at, I firmly believe that there will be improvements in the balance in favour of the Quebec side of the Ottawa River, if only for economic reasons. We will probably need to expand our real estate portfolio. All things being equal, the possibility of our going to the Gatineau area is very good, given the financial terms offered. I would like to remind you that I inherited a situation that could have been much better, and I am sure you will agree with me on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Fortier, it would be best not to talk about heritage, because we inherited a very difficult situation in 1993 too. It’s one reason why things are not as perfect as they should be. When you take over from a government with a $42 billion deficit, it’s not something that is easy to deal with.

[Michael Fortier]

If you will allow me—

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I simply wanted to point out that one must be fair.

[Michael Fortier]

I just wish that Mr. Proulx had tabled his motion two years ago.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

It’s no use blaming each other, we need to be constructive.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I have a point of order.

The chair has a right to offer—

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

What is your point of order?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I'm about to tell you. The role of the chair is to preside over the meeting, not to pounce in and offer opinions at any given time, for any given reason. If you wish to offer opinions, it's fair. But just put yourself on the list like the rest of us, because we all have to wait our turn, and we would hope that you would as well. Being chair does not absent you from that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Poilievre, I am the chair and I have the right to speak when I decide to speak.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

And that's my point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Nadeau.