Government Operations Committee on Feb. 13th, 2007

[An hon. member]

Does it come on wheels?

[Ian E. Bennett]

You'll need to bring your strongest son with you to carry it. It will be about 100 kilograms in weight, so it will be over 3,000 ounces. If you do the math, at today's gold price the value of the gold alone will be in excess of $2 million. So it will have a face value of $1 million, but we're not going to sell it for $1 million; we'll sell it at a price that reflects the value of the gold and a profit for the mint.

We haven't embarked on this just because we like to build things bigger and bigger. It's because we want to underline for the world's bullion community that the Royal Canadian Mint has the technology to do this. No one else can make a gold coin this big. No one has ever done it before. The same guys who were so clever with multi-ply steel plating at 320 Sussex have developed a technology that will allow us to produce this gold coin.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

With the discussion on the penny, outside of the rise and fall of the price of your raw material, copper, will it have much of an impact on it should the GST move to 5% rather than 6%, as it is now? It will result in less fractionalizing in the change that stores need to give back. Will that have any real input on whether you continue the penny or not?

[Ian E. Bennett]

I don't think so. In New Zealand--and Australia got rid of their penny as well--they still price things in the stores at $1.99. You take all your purchases to the cashier, they add them up, and maybe it comes to $58.62. If you pay with a credit card you get charged $58.62. If you pay cash and there's no penny, both of those countries have legislation that has established rounding rules. The merchant is required to round the total in favour of the consumer. So it can be done, and we can still live without the penny.

[La présidente, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Bonin.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to briefly go back to the poppy coin.

I'd like to know your position on the process. Was that a good experience? Is it something you would like to do again?

I can tell you that we members received a lot of complaints because that was distributed by Tim Hortons. People had trouble accepting it. In my case, I told my constituents that I was going to buy some, then sell them to them for $10 a roll. I tried to buy some; they refused to sell any to me. I insisted, and they agreed. However, when I received the order, I had to pay $60 for shipping. So I had to absorb that cost myself.

I find it hard to accept that a member who purchases coins should have to bear additional costs. If I had been in Winnipeg, would I have had to pay the $60? If the coins had been made in Ottawa, would I have had to pay that amount? If I had to pay that amount, my constituents had to pay it as well, whereas Tim Hortons didn't have to pay it.

So there was an injustice because you did the distribution for Tim Hortons, but not for us.

[Ian E. Bennett]

I'm going to let Mr. Neville speak to it, because that's a tough question.

I don't think our experience at the Mint with Tim Hortons and the poppy coin was a universal success. We had problems and we've learned some lessons as a result. We will continue to explore the production of coloured coins. We did it again with the breast cancer coin, which I don't think had the same distribution problems and issues as the Tim Hortons poppy coin.

So I take your point. I think we have learned some lessons as a result of the experience with Tim Hortons.

Do you want to add something?

[Richard Neville, Vice-President, Finance and Administration and Chief Financial Officer, Royal Canadian Mint]

I might add that it goes without saying that we had problems, but we also had a lot of success. That was the first time in the world a coloured circulation coin was made. We made 30 million of them. It was very well received; we even had additional requests for those coins.

As regards the transportation cost, we obviously had to charge it to you. We also handled all the Canadians who requested coins from us, both those from Vancouver and those from Winnipeg, Ottawa and the east. We charged them all shipping costs to distribute the coins in those circumstances. Would we do the same the next time? That's a good question.

That was the first time. We've learned some lessons from that experience and we'll obviously resolve that in the future.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Did the Winnipeg people have to pay shipping?

[Richard Neville]

Yes.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

They paid the same amount, even if there was no shipping?

[Richard Neville]

That depended where they were.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

What if they could go pick them up?

[Richard Neville]

All right. It's the same thing here in Ottawa. If you came to the store...

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

No, we tried.

[Richard Neville]

That's because there weren't any more. We had a certain number to distribute. There was a fixed price for a roll of coins at the store, but there weren't any shipping charges.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I can tell you that they refused here.

[Richard Neville]

There were line-ups at noon to pick up coins.

As I told you, it was a major success in that people wanted to have the coins.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I agree that it was a big success, a great initiative. However, my constituents found it hard to accept the fact that they had to pay shipping, whereas Tim Hortons didn't pay. That's what you have to remember.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Ms. Thibault.

If there's nobody else after you, we'll break for a few minutes. Then we'll come back to discuss some future business. We'll only be back for about five minutes.

[Some hon. members]

Let's not break.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

We won't break then.

Madame Thibault.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much. I'd like to go back to the lessons learned with regard to Tim Hortons. Would you redo the same experience without proceeding by means of a call for tenders? If you had to repeat the experience, would you issue a call for tenders to determine who in the private sector would be interested in taking part?

I think that was unacceptable. I have nothing against Tim Hortons, but it was unacceptable to favour certain regions based on the number of Tim Hortons there. For example, I can tell you that they're hard to find in the Lower St. Lawrence region. From Quebec City on, that's fine. I know because I travel that road: I leave Rimouski on Monday to come to Ottawa, and I return there by car on Friday. So I can tell you where the Tim Hortons, Dunkin' Donuts and Starbucks are because I'm a coffee drinker. Someone was favoured, which raised some very serious questions. That's one of the lessons learned.

We've obviously talked about coins. Pardon my ignorance, but what about paper currency? You produce ours, but do you produce those of other countries? Is that something that isn't done? Do countries produce their own paper currency?

[Ian E. Bennett]

We make it, in Winnipeg.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

You can also do it for other countries?