Evidence of meeting #40 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was buildings.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada Inc.
I'm quite certain it does. We don't cover that area.
4:10 p.m.
President, Canada Green Building Council
It actually does. There's an organization in Alberta that has started up. It's called Built Green Alberta. It's a certification program. It's a green program for home builders that does provide some certification of homes, single-family detached homes.
Our organization as well has just started to introduce a program called LEED for Homes, as a national standard, to rate low-rise residential construction.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Thibault Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Of course, when you talk about millions of square feet of space, the benefits are obvious, but millions of residences could be much more energy efficient. Since there are millions of houses, there could be benefits there too.
In the Go Green program, I would like to know how long a building can keep its certification. What should the building owners do to keep their certification. What is their responsibility about this?
Comparisons are never perfect, but this system seems to me to be similar to the ISO standards. Once you get the ISO 9002 standard, for example, you keep it for 20 years. But one can wonder whether the level of quality is always maintained.
For how long does the certification last? What should the owner do to keep it or avoid being rapped on the hand?
4:10 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada Inc.
As I mentioned earlier—and I think “rapped on the hand” is a good expression—the certification is valid for three years, so right off the bat that's the baseline. After three years, they need to reapply. They need to go through the full certification process and answer the questions again. They need to show that they continue to reach the required level, and they are verified again. In the case of the Go Green program, which is a best practices standard that lays out some groundwork, there must be a plan in place for energy savings.
They then, after the three years, need to prove that they've actually taken action on that plan that is in place. So the measure after three years, to be recertified, is to show that they've actually made an improvement and acted on their action plan.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Thibault Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
The environment is one thing, but a business is there to make a profit. Business owners do not want theirs costs to be higher than their revenues. I have nothing against making a profit. We are all in favour of that.
What will the costs be, every three years, to make a new application, meet the requirements, complete a questionnaire, and so on? Once they get their certification, how much will it cost to keep it three years down the road?
4:10 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada Inc.
The recertification cost is the same as the initial certification cost, which was, as I indicated, in the range of anywhere from $750 to $2,500. So the benefits, in my mind, far outweigh the fairly reasonable cost.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Thibault Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
How would you rate the performance of the Conservative government in the greening of its buildings? I am not talking here about its good intentions, but about tangible results. I know it is just a beginning.
4:15 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada Inc.
If I may ask for clarification, are you asking whether we are assessing now what has been achieved or how will we assess...?
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Thibault Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
No.
On the basis of its achievements to date, how do you rate de federal government's approach to the greening of its operations? Is it going in the right direction?
I do not think we need to rush, but is its approach rigorous enough and does it move forward fast enough? Have the buildings been identified? Is it a systematic approach?
This is the context of my question on the present record of the federal government. This is not a partisan question. I am not talking about the Conservative government but about the government that launched six years ago a 15 year plan of action. What is your assessment of the present situation?
4:15 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada Inc.
I guess the simplest answer to that would be that we've had a very positive working relationship with government since the Office of Greening Government Operations has been established, working towards the certification of the crown-owned portfolio buildings. I think the commitment to undertake the program is, to us, an indicator that the government is going in the right direction.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Thibault Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
My colleague Mr. Simard asked a very interesting question, and it is not surprising. You said a commitment was made since the office was established.
What are the good intentions and the record of other jurisdictions like the provinces? Does the federal government's record compare favourably with that of the provinces.
4:15 p.m.
President, Canada Green Building Council
I don't think they do compare favourably. You have a larger organization to change, and it's more far-reaching.
If you take the province of Alberta, the geographical area is more focused. From coast to coast you have a larger area to deal with, and I think it just takes longer.
In terms of the level of policy, I think it's comparable. The provincial governments that have adopted the LEED system have committed to certification. I think that's a really important thing. In terms of the federal government here, we have not always seen that the facilities are certified. Certainly the intent is there, but following through all the way has sometimes not been achieved. There's certainly a willingness, but it has not always been followed through, and it is somewhat inconsistent at this stage.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Thibault Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
My last question is on the existing buildings. One of our concerns has to do with the built heritage. This includes buildings that can be 50 years old, they can be old and very nice, but some buildings can also carry a special designation.
Can the Canadian government succeed in greening its heritage buildings, or should we be more reasonable and accept to exclude buildings that are a 100 years old or more? Are there some opportunities with these buildings?
4:15 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada Inc.
I would certainly say there are. Obviously, there are certain infrastructure elements of the buildings that can't be changed because of their heritage status, but there are resource consumption changes that can be made there. The way the building is managed can be changed. All of these are components within the program that are encouraged. They may not achieve top status, but the demonstration of intent is an important component as well.
4:15 p.m.
President, Canada Green Building Council
I would agree with that. The LEED program for commercial interiors, for example, would allow you to do a lot of things in any kind of building that bring up the performance.
March 1st, 2007 / 4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to both of you for being here today.
I have a number of questions related to a few different pages of your presentation, Mr. Mueller, so I'll try to sort of hop around on them.
On pages 8 and 9, you refer to some of the cost benefits that are a result of certification. I'm just wondering how you measure those. You mentioned especially productivity and health benefits. Do you measure that by the number of sick days? Do you measure it by the fact that your employees now take two steps at a time up the stairs? How do you measure that productivity?
4:20 p.m.
President, Canada Green Building Council
It's mainly individuals and schools that do these studies to measure. Productivity is hard to measure, but absenteeism—
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
President, Canada Green Building Council
Yes, for example, it's sick days. In health care, for example, it is how long people actually stay in the hospital, how long they take to recover. There are certainly indications that in facilities that have daylight, natural ventilation, and proper views of nature outside, the stays are shorter.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
As far as the financial payback goes, do you have figures that would help us to understand how many years' payback--for example, qualifying at a platinum level, it would take more years for payback, I assume. Do you have an average of years' payback for platinum, gold, and silver?
4:20 p.m.
President, Canada Green Building Council
We don't have, in fact, because there are so many variables in buildings. It depends where the building is, how big it is, how committed the owner is, what level of certification has been targeted, what technologies have been applied. There are so many variables.
Generally, we say what we have found--and I have to tell you this anecdotally--is that in areas where there's more experience.... For example, in western Canada, and in Ontario as well, you can get a LEED-certified building, a LEED silver building, at virtually no additional cost. Additional costs are very low--maybe 1%. So the paybacks are within the year.
