The tradition of the public service is to have people enter at the bottom and grow up into the public service. We have enough in the feeder groups to feed the requirements at the senior levels, as long as we have people trained and developed to go there. That's where the challenge is: to make sure we give the training and the experience and the development so that they can take those jobs.
If you talk about competing for a senior public service job with the private sector, that's a different conversation. The benefits and the type of work and the development, if it's a career, get very much more difficult, if you're coming from the private sector. At senior levels, you'd get paid a lot more than you do in the public service. There, it's not an easy transition; the benefits aren't the same; the work isn't the same. That has proven to be more difficult.