Government Operations Committee on April 19th, 2007

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I can't give you a firm date on that, but I can say that our efforts to do so were set back by the rejection of the name of the individual who had been brought forward as the commissioner.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

There is no date at this point for any implementation of the Public Appointments Commission or the secretariat.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I don't have that information. It doesn't fall within my department to establish that date.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Okay. I have a particular question about the main estimates. Actually I have a couple of questions. One of them is around education spending.

There was an item that I noticed on collection agencies pursuant to the Financial Administration Act. There was $18.5 million in 2006-07 for private collection agencies that has now been eliminated in 2007-08. This may be completely unrelated, but I know from my constituents—I hear from students who are being pursued by private collection agencies for student debts. It's making them feel like criminals, because once they're out of university, they're not making a lot of money and they're quickly pressured into paying back sometimes quite onerous debts.

Is the money that was allocated for private collection agencies related to education, for the return of student loans? Is that what that would be for, or is it for something completely different? It is not in the current budget year.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I'd like to ask for a reference as to where that is in the book.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

It's under Human Resources and Skills Development, page 14-3.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Just before I let Mr. Moloney answer that, I'd like to indicate that as an MP I've had some experience with this. I know that students in my own riding have been pursued to repay student loans.

I've found, in discussing this with the various agencies responsible for the collection, that they have been actually fairly reasonable in making accommodations for trying to repay those loans, and I've known it as an opposition MP during the time the Liberals were in power. So I'm surprised that an agency would make these individuals feel like criminals. That hasn't been my experience.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

We've just had complaints in our office about it. This amount may be completely unrelated, but I'm just asking the question.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Perhaps Mr. Moloney could answer it for me.

[David Moloney]

In fact, for the amount that has gone to zero here on page 4-2 under Canada Revenue Agency, there's a new amount. What has happened is that the various collections activities across the government have been centralized under CRA on behalf of other departments.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Would this include student loans?

[Wayne Wouters]

No, I—

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

It's a separate issue?

[Wayne Wouters]

This includes larger collections under the Canada pension fund, as well as the employment insurance. Those collection activities have now been transferred over to CRA to combine with their collection capacity.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I don't have a specific reference on this—yes, actually I do—in the estimates. It's on the issue of housing. I know we raised this under the budget, that there was no mention of homelessness in the federal budget.

Housing is a big issue in my community. There are 65,000 households on the waiting list for assisted housing. It can take up to 12 years to get assisted housing in the city of Toronto, and we have a lot of very low-income people. The average for a two-bedroom apartment is about $1,000, whereas a very low-income person can often only afford about half that amount.

In the estimates, I saw that spending on housing and homelessness in the Human Resources and Skills Development section will drop for this budget year by more than $44 million from last year, and that funding for assisted housing will drop by $391 million. Overall funding for affordable housing has dropped from the $800 million going to the provinces in 2006 to $92.8 million for this year.

I just want to make the point that in my community I hear huge concerns expressed about the lack of affordable housing, and the lack of commitment in this budget really creates a lot of pain for people. I see it on a daily basis in our area. I want to raise this because the drop in funding for housing is quite large.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

That's not my understanding of the budget at all. I am familiar with at least the $300 million for off-reserve low-cost housing or assisted housing. I know there are a number of other programs. So to suggest that the homeless issue was not addressed, or low-cost housing—

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

It was not mentioned in the budget.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Maybe the word “homeless” wasn't—

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

We will have to go on to the next questioner.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

—but certainly low-cost housing was mentioned extensively in the budget, as I recall it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

We will go to Mr. Turner.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

Thank you.

Welcome, Minister.

I'd like to talk a little bit with you about the estimates and overall spending. Obviously, as Treasury Board boss, you're in charge of the government's overall spending.

According to our documents, the government spending increase for 2006-07 is just under 6%, which is double the rate of inflation ,and the overall increase to 2007-08 is 12%, which is, right now, six times the rate of inflation.

I'm wondering how, as a conservative whose philosophy is that less government is generally better government, you feel about that?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

That's a big question. More government spending doesn't necessarily mean more government. Governments can spend money through agencies such as non-governmental agencies that do a very effective job, but in itself, reducing government doesn't reduce spending. You have to take a look at spending as a whole and look at how spending best achieves results, whether it's a government agency or a non-governmental agency.

[Garth Turner, Conservative, Halton, ON]

Can I ask you this, Minister. If you were still in opposition and the Liberal government brought in a budget that increased spending by six times the rate of inflation to the highest dollar value ever in history, how do you think you might respond?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

First of all, what I can say is that our government...and I can't say what another government would have spent its money on, because that for me has always been the issue: is the government addressing priority issues? As far as I'm concerned, our government is committed to growth and spending on average to the rate of the growth of the economy, and the overall increase in budgetary spending 2007-08 is 5.9%.

It should be noted that the 11.3% increase in operating and capital expenditures of the 2007-08 main estimates represents only one component of the total budgetary expenses of the main estimates, and as a whole, in relation to a series of other increases and decreases in budgetary amounts, the increase in operating and capital expenditure falls within the overall budgetary total as outlined with the November 2006 economic and fiscal update.