Government Operations Committee on April 24th, 2007

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Well, explain that to me.

[Michael Fortier]

Let me tell you. The decision to sell the buildings was not made by the experts. It was made by the government. They are not the government. We are. We made that decision.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

I guess the question is, based on what information?

[Michael Fortier]

Well, based on information. But you know, it might come as a surprise to you, but there are a lot of people in cabinet who have private sector expertise and have a lot of common sense. And it came across to us, all of us, that being in bricks and mortar isn't necessarily something that we need to be as a government.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

So you're telling me that it's based on a few private sector people who may have decided that Public Works was not a good landlord? Those are not your buildings; those are Canadian buildings. There's something wrong with this process.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you very much, Mr. Simard. Your time is up, and we're going to go to Monsieur Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon gentlemen, and Mr. Minister.

We have already met on a couple of occasions, and we are dealing here with an issue that directly affects people in my riding. It is the issue of the 25 to 75% ratio for jobs in Gatineau, on the other side of the Ottawa River, and jobs in Ottawa. I broached the issue with you last June and we have discussed the matter at least twice during our meetings. I have also discussed it with Mr. Baird and Mr. Toews.

The member of Pontiac, Mr. Cannon, announced last June that a policy would be established on the 25-75% ratio, and that made the front page of Le Droit. I want to know if that policy is already underway and if you can tell us about it.

[Michael Fortier]

I will repeat what I have already told you. We inherited a real estate imbalance. I am not playing on words, but that is the truth. The Liberals left us with an imbalance that is about 77 to 23%, if I remember correctly.

To swing the pendulum towards the kind of balance you are suggesting, of course, would require major movements in terms of square meters. So that requires planning.

As regards our real estate footprint, be it for buildings or leased accommodations, I am committed and will always be committed to seeking out markets that are the least expensive for taxpayers. I am not an expert in the Greater Ottawa Region, but it seems to me that in Gatineau, on the other side of the river, it would be possible, in terms of the government's real estate footprint, if it were to expand into the Greater Ottawa Region, for us to find savings there.

Mr. McGrath is aware of that, of course, because he had also made that observation. So we are going to move in that direction with the policy, keeping in mind potential savings for taxpayers, and we will take steps to move closer to the principle of real estate balance that you mentioned earlier.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Bear in mind as well that there must also be a balance in terms of jobs. Government employees, in other words public servants, will need to be transferred to achieve that balance on both sides of the river. In fact, we provided you with a report illustrating that.

Having said that, I would now like to raise another issue. In 2000, the federal government purchased about 0.5 of 1% of its goods and services on the Quebec side, compared to 99.5% from the Greater Ottawa Area. In 2004, we had reached 6 or 7% on the Quebec side. From the perspective of equity between the two, are steps being taken to ensure that more goods and services are being purchased on the Gatineau side?

I would like to tell you about a problem we are currently facing. Two examples come to mind, but I will not name anyone. There are cases where small- and medium-sized businesses have opened offices in Ottawa, but also in Gatineau. They bought two offices and opened branch offices. People go to see them in Ottawa, but not in Gatineau, even though they are selling the same product.

Could you tell me if the department has a plan for the procurement of goods and services from small- and medium-sized companies, one that respects the 25-75% balance between the two sides of the river?

[Michael Fortier]

I will ask Mr. Marshall to complete my answer.

We have done considerable work on the small- and medium-sized businesses. We have opened six offices throughout the country, because we want small- and medium-sized businesses to obtain more federal government contracts. On this issue, I can reassure you: it is going well. More and more small- and medium-sized businesses are showing interest in dealing with us. I see that in a very positive light.

As regards the region, I will give you a simple answer. The vast majority of contracts are awarded following a tender call. I am convinced that nothing in the department's policy involves encouraging companies to move to the Greater Ottawa Area and to consider them only when they are in Ottawa. If you have any examples—and I understand that you do not want to provide any names today—I invite you to come and see us, as you did the other day, and we will take a look at the situation. In fact, it would be unacceptable to force people to move, to change postal codes, in order to be taken into consideration.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

On the question of the minister signing the project over to Treasury Board, Mr. Marshall, on the submission that he will be signing, will he see a list of competitors and then choose the winner?

[David Marshall]

No, absolutely not. The minister makes his recommendation based on a detailed recommendation from my office to him.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Right. So he will not be choosing winners and losers.

[David Marshall]

No.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

He's merely signing the project to go forward to Treasury Board.

[David Marshall]

That is correct.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

And that has always been the role of a minister sending a submission from his department.

[David Marshall]

That is correct.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Okay. Just to make clear, the minister is not going to be looking at a list of competitors and putting a check mark next to his favourite one.

[David Marshall]

That is correct.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Okay. Good. And when Treasury Board receives it, will they receive a list of competitors and be given the option to choose the one they like the best?

[David Marshall]

No, not at all.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Okay.

[David Marshall]

They will question us as to a proper process and do their own due diligence.