Evidence of meeting #51 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was buildings.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
On this building per se?
Can you answer that?
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
First of all, PPA just earmarks funds. It doesn't give us the actual funding; it just allows us access to funding, which we have to come back to seek through Treasury Board submissions. The West Block renovations themselves are a program of work.
A lot of the costs go, as the associate said, to the fit-up of the various locations. The actual work on the West Block itself will be around $300 million; that's on the West Block portion of it. Then when we decide what the long-term use of that facility is, that's going to be part of the long-term vision plan itself.
Conservative
Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON
You're going to spend $300 million on this building without knowing its ultimate disposition or use?
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, that's what's planned to be spent. We don't have approval for it. We only have approval to empty the West Block at this point; that's the only approval we have.
Conservative
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We are, for the stabilization of the exterior masonry work.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
When we're done all the stabilization work and some of the interior work that we have to do, it will be around $200 million.
Conservative
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No. It's also creating the swing space in the long term for the other work.
Conservative
Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON
No, she said it's another $350 million for the swing space. I just heard that we're spending $300 million on this building, which hasn't been approved yet, and we're spending $200 million on stabilization of the masonry, which has been approved.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
If you like, Madam Chair, we can commit to get you the data, because there's a risk that we'll get it mixed up otherwise.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
I'd like to suggest to the committee as well that perhaps we can get someone from the House of Commons to come to talk to us about the future plans.
Conservative
Garth Turner Conservative Halton, ON
Yes, I was going to say, Madam Chairman, that I know this is a Hill issue, but my constituents are going to be a little concerned if we're spending half a billion dollars on this building. Maybe we ought to have a meeting on this. Maybe we ought to put taking a look at the parliamentary precinct on the agenda and look at exactly how one gets to spend $500 million on this pile of rocks.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
We'll see if we can get someone from the House of Commons to come to make a presentation. I think she's done it in years past, but it would be good for all of us to know what the particular plans are at this time and go from there.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
It makes sense.
Mr. Warkentin, did you...? No?
How about Madame Bourgeois?
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Thank you Madam Chair.
I would like to come back to the $500 million that my colleague referred to. Does that amount appear somewhere? Is the real property budget in the Report on Plans and Priorities?
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, we do have financial information on spending related to Parliament Hill.
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Look at page 75 in the English portion, and in the French portion it's page 85.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes. In the English version it's page 75. It's in section 3, supplementary information, in a table entitled “Real Property Services”. You'll see, about midway down, “Parliamentary Precinct”, where the various projects are set out.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Thank you.
Are there any other documents that would show a breakdown of the expenditures?
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Do you mean more details?
In the Public Accounts as well would be the actual spending on these projects.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
To come back to the accounting principle to which Mr. Hawkes referred, I would like to know if you put a dollar value on the depreciation of government buildings or of the reconstruction work that is done on the buildings. Are these amounts included annually in the government accounting?