Evidence of meeting #7 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mail.
9:55 a.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
I've never carried mail. I was an inside clerk and I was a wicket clerk. But I know there is a lot of overburdening, and many of our members are finding it hard to complete their day and to deliver all their mail in their workday.
9:55 a.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Canada Post has that option, and Canada Post isn't shy about disciplining our members for failing to meet their job functions, for failing to provide a service, and for failing to do their job. Canada Post will discipline them.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Do I hear from you, Mrs. Bourque, that if I complain to Canada Post in an election campaign that they have not delivered the voter's card to every individual mailbox, if I were to complain to Canada Post and Canada Post were to decide to fire that particular employee, your union would not put in a grievance, your union would not complain, and your union would let Canada Post fire that employee?
9:55 a.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
That would depend on the circumstances surrounding the discipline. That would depend on the employee's previous record. It would depend on—
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Because if he has a better record, he's allowed to make mistakes.
9:55 a.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Can I finish?
It would depend on the employee's record in terms of progressive discipline. This is arbitral law. It would depend on the jurisprudence in the particular case. It would depend on the nature of the offence. It would depend on the nature of the penalty. We make decisions every day on discharge cases—whether or not to file a grievance, whether or not to actually take that grievance to third-party arbitration. We sometimes say no. We sometimes say yes, that the penalty was too severe, or whatever. Unions make these decisions every day in terms of discharge and discipline.
We have an obligation under the Canada industrial relations regulations. We have a duty of fair representation to all our members. So whenever a member is disciplined, we have an obligation to seriously review that file and make that decision, based on all the information we have and the jurisprudence. If we don't take the grievance, our member has the right to go before the Canada Industrial Relations Board, and they're not shy about doing that either. They do that, and we put our case before the board.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you for coming this morning.
I have a different area I'd like to explore with you. I did a bit of research, and based on the information that has been provided to me, the employees at Canada Post average about 15.5 sick days a year. When you look at other sectors, the one that comes closest to you is transportation and warehousing at 11 days a year. If you look at public administration, it's at 10, manufacturing is at 10. The actual average for a Canadian worker is 7.5 days.
Now, to me, an extra week of sick days seems to represent a fairly high absentee rate. I want to know what the union is doing, if anything, to try to improve on that record. The number is fairly high compared to other industrial sectors, considering you're in a very competitive business now and productivity is an issue for both management and the union.
10 a.m.
Director of Research, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
I don't know where you got your figure, but it's incorrect. The average use of sick leave by our membership in the urban agreement is 11-point something. I'm sorry, but I don't know the exact percentage. The reality is that the average member in our bargaining unit who retires and who has worked for 30 years usually retires with about 120 days of accumulated sick leave without getting paid anything out of it.
I deal with bargaining and with information that we get from Canada Post, and I'd be more than willing to look at your figures.
You're talking about paid days of sick leave?
10 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
According to Canada Post, the rate of absenteeism of all employees, which includes non-union employees, of course, is 15.5 days a year.
10 a.m.
Director of Research, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
You said sick leave. You didn't say—
10 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
It's absenteeism, and that's the same comparison I'm doing here.
10 a.m.
Director of Research, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
If you take a look at absenteeism, then you'd be looking at other things like bereavement leave and special leave for various other things. That would make some sense.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Would you agree, though, that you're way ahead of other industries in terms of that?
10 a.m.
Director of Research, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
No. You used an average number of 7.5 days for the country. Again, I'd be glad to come back to you on this, but as I understand it, in the study that Stats Canada did of unionized workforces—which are the workforces where people can avail themselves of various forms of paid leave—the average is much more in line with ours. As a matter of fact, I actually thought we were slightly below the national average—but again, I'd be more than happy to get into these figures with you.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
I understand that you like to compare yourselves with other unionized environments. I actually come from a household that's unionized—though we don't always agree.
My issue with Canada Post is that you are in a very competitive business, and you are competing against private sector productivity also—and not all of the private sector is unionized, as you know.
So you're coming into a negotiation and you're telling me that from the membership's point of view, you don't find the absenteeism rate an issue for your union at this particular moment?
10 a.m.
Director of Research, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. The issue for us of workplace injuries, workplace illnesses, or work-related illnesses is a very important issue. We do a lot, I have to say, to try to improve working conditions. We're very active around trying to deal with anything that could possibly result in a reduction of work-related illnesses or workplace accidents.
I'm sure you can appreciate that the vast majority of the work of our membership is outside, working in the elements during nice days like today and in cold weather, and also inside, working on the night shift. I'm sure you're aware that all of the figures and studies that you can look at will show there's a higher rate of illness among people who do night shift work.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
I also come from a shift work household. When you mention the outside, you know, construction is at 8.3 days of sick leave, and there isn't much more physical activity, both indoors and outdoors, than that.
But let me move off that. Thank you very much for your answer.
I have two more quick questions. What's your view of the employment engagement that Canada Post is undertaking? Have you been engaged in that yet? Do you know much about it at this particular moment? I think it's relatively new, but I'm not positive of that.
10 a.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
We'd like to see some management-union engagement. We'd like to see some of that!
In fact, I don't know a lot about the employee engagement program. So far it's manifested itself by having the president and some senior vice-presidents go around and visit the various workplaces.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Okay.
My final question is that in your discussion you talked about coming up to negotiations and that the feeling between management and the union is strained compared with how it has been over the last decade, but you also said that's at the national level. So are you telling me that the rank-and-file employees are pretty happy working for Canada Post?
10:05 a.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
No, actually, my comment was just the opposite. I'm sorry if I wasn't articulate on that. What I said was that over the last decade we've enjoyed relative labour peace, at least at the national level. That hasn't always reflected itself at the shop floor or at the local level. My point was—
10:05 a.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Yes, it was backwards.
Things got better over the last decade at the national level, more than they did at the local level. We were just—
