Government Operations Committee on Feb. 26th, 2008

[Wayne Wouters]

Again, I don't think I can get into those details vis-à-vis the current claim. That is now subject to a legal dispute, so I do not want to comment on that.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

But could you simply state whether or not you've assessed that? I'm not asking you for the outcome of it. Have you assessed it?

[Wayne Wouters]

Madam Chair, I'm not prepared to comment on any aspect of those particular accusations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I agree with you, Mr. Wouters. I don't think you should be made to answer those questions.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Okay.

Perhaps, Mr. Wouters, you could tell me who, if anybody, in Treasury Board advised Minister Baird with respect to his interpretation of clause 6.1.7 on the extension of the closing date of the contract. Did you or anybody else advise him on his interpretation? Because that's obviously very much in dispute.

[Wayne Wouters]

Again, we had our lawyers, who are lawyers with the Department of Justice, review the contract. They provided us with their advice and we made the determination. You're referring to a certain clause, and I'm not going to comment on a specific clause.

We made the determination that while it didn't state December 15, if you read through the contract there would not be any additional costs as applied to the contract. Now, there were comments made by the city about other costs--the cost escalation of the project--but as applied to the contract, if that decision was not made until the December 15 date....

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Well, to Mr. Kirkpatrick, this is a critical point. I mean, the confidentiality agreement was broken. Maybe I can ask you if the City of Ottawa was asked to confirm Minister Baird's interpretation of clause 6.1.7. Was there any consultation with the city to confirm the clause before he made the statement he did?

[Kent Kirkpatrick]

Through you, Madam Chair, just to clarify, the confirmation was asked for by whom?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

You may recall that Minister Baird said that the contract would be extended because of clause 6.1.7. My question is with regard to the consultation. Obviously you more than anybody else, and Siemens, would know this contract. Presumably any intelligent minister would have approached you beforehand to confirm that a clause could actually be used to extend a contract.

So before he made a public declaration that the clause could be used to extend, was there any consultation with you, who had been working on this project over all this period of time?

[Kent Kirkpatrick]

Madam Chair, no. There was no consultation, as I indicated earlier, between that period of time of when we forwarded the contract and when we were advised of the decision of Treasury Board and heard about the interpretation of the contract, through the media, by Minister Baird.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I would ask that question of Siemens, but of course they're not here.

To Mr. Wouters, can you confirm whether or not Mr. Baird was briefed on the internal review that Treasury Board performed? Was he ever briefed on that?

[Wayne Wouters]

Madam Chair, when the honourable member says “internal” review, I assume he's referring to the review of the contract that was provided to the minister.

Madam Chair, yes, we did brief the minister on the review we undertook and the determination we made.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I think we are out of time. It's 11 o'clock.

Before you go, Madame Faille has requested a short question.

Is it a question of the committee and not of the witnesses?

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I see it is late and I would like the clerk to give me some clarification before the end of the meeting.

We agreed before the break that we would be kept informed of Mr. Soudas' appearance next Thursday. I would just like to be informed of the procedure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I will ask the clerk to answer your question, given that he is working on that file.

[The Clerk]

I tried to reach Mr. Soudas several times, particularly yesterday morning and this morning. I left a message on his voice mail. However, I have received no call back from him nor any answer to my e-mail. The last conversation I had with him was on Wednesday, February 13, at 12:41 p.m. He told me that he could not yet confirm his presence for Thursday, February 28, but that he could make himself available if the other witnesses were. I have not had any news since that day.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

During our last meeting, we had said that if it was a problem getting this person to appear, we would proceed in a more official manner. I would simply like to know what we are doing in this regard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you, Ms. Faille.

I thank our witnesses very much for coming forward. I think we have shed some light on some of these issues. Have a good day.

I'm going to close the meeting now.