Government Operations Committee on March 6th, 2008

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

“Notably” could be another one.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

It simply does not get to the point that was made previously, that this minister was here at our last meeting, there was time left over, and there were no more questions to be asked. So to imply that he tried to hide something—

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

On a point of order, Chair—sorry to interrupt—I actually don't want to go down the path of a subamendment. It was just a suggestion. Take it or leave it.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Madame Bourgeois.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Madam Chair, I want to finish.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Well, he has withdrawn his subamendment.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I had my hand up on the other one.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I'm going to go back to the order where I was on the amendment, which is Madame Bourgeois...or was it Madame Folco?

Have you finished, Ms. Folco?

Madame Bourgeois, and then Mr. Kramp and Mr. Warkentin.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I will deal with the amendment later. Perhaps I didn't explain the motion correctly. I would like us to invite officials from Public Works and Government Services Canada because we met with them when we were studying the sale of government buildings. The government was using a lease-back process. We had a number of questions about the definition of a lease-back and the disadvantages that it could present. We were never ever told about any lawsuit or any problems with the tenants or those who sublet these buildings. I think the committee should hear from the officials at Public Works and Government Services Canada who were aware of the problems with Rosdev. They were probably also invited to appear when the Rosdev file was being discussed.

Now I would like to deal with the unelected Minister of Public Works and Government Services Canada. I say unelected because he was appointed. We have to make the public aware of this because he is travelling around Quebec calling himself a minister. He is not yet a minister, he is a senator and he doesn't even attend when the Senate is sitting. That said, I think we should call him to appear. He has the time, since he does not attend the Senate debates and—

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

On a point of order—

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Is it a real point of order?

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Yes. The member opposite is saying that a minister of the crown is not a minister of the crown. I think it's important that she either bring evidence of that or else desist in this slander.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

He obviously is a minister of the crown, even though he was named as—

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you very much for the clarification.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Madame.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

We did ask him some questions, but they were not the right ones. He was asked if he had met with certain people, if he had spoken to them on the phone. There might be other questions that we could ask him. It is important for the unelected minister to return with his officials so that we can delve a little further into this matter. That is why I do not want to change the second part of my motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Before I go to Mr. Kramp, I believe Madame Bourgeois has accepted that we use the word “notably” instead of “among other things”. How's that?

She says it in French, “notamment”, which is a direct translation.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

That is what it means.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Again, it would read “to explain notably why he tried to hide information from the Committee”. It's a translation. It's not a problem, right? Okay.

Mr. Kramp.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have two points. Madame Bourgeois has said there might be more questions we might want to ask the minister. The minister left a full half-hour at the last meeting alone before the time expired because there were no more questions.

If you have more questions, do your homework and be prepared and ask them.

This went on and on, so might I suggest at this point another.... Mr. Dewar really wants to get to the bottom of this file. On and on and on--as he said, it's gone on with various ministers. I suggest let's just put a halt to all of this nonsense, this politicizing, and bringing in a minister when it's unnecessary. Let's get to the bottom of it.

I think Mr. Dewar might even appreciate the friendly amendment I'm about to make.

Let's bring them in then; if they wish to bring in Minister Fortier again, then fine, but let's also bring in the person who was responsible for dealing with most of the Rosdev file all the way through. Let's bring in Minister Brison and his chief of staff as well and let us deal with this issue and with all the key people who have been involved. We'll put them on the stand, deal with it, and get it over with.

Does that sound like a reasonable, friendly amendment?

[An hon. member]

Maybe not friendly.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Yes, on both counts, Madam Chair, reasonable and friendly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

That's a subamendment, right? Yes.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Yes, that is another subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Is there any debate on the subamendment?

Mr. Dewar.