Government Operations Committee on April 1st, 2008

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I can certainly look into it.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

And the briefing notes that they would have supplied you with?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

There weren't any briefing notes.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Lawyers usually take notes. Can you look into that?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

If this was first approved by the previous Liberal government... We can open up all the cabinet confidences of my Treasury Board if we can open up all the cabinet confidences of the previous—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I'm asking for the briefing notes because Mr. Wouters and his officials weren't involved, and I'm just trying to figure out who was. Let me say this, Minister: it's not Treasury Board's responsibility to review municipal contracts. The board's responsibility is to review federal contracts. Your former deputy minister came before this committee and said that this was not the Treasury Board's area of responsibility. That was clear.

I'm going to ask you, can you cite a single example, just one, in Canadian history, where Treasury Board has interfered in a municipal contract in the same way? Just one example.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Of course, those are all cabinet confidences, but if you—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

No, they're projects with public outcomes. Can you name one?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

When I—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Can you name a single one in Canadian history?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

When I asked to look at the contract, I was exclusively looking for the clause that placed a deadline, and the penalty for exceeding it, on the city. That was the only purpose. Because I had been given five different answers on five different occasions, I asked to see the source document where the deadline would be found. I read it and learned that I had been misled.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I'm asking for another example in Canadian history where a municipal contract was asked for and where there was intervention by Treasury Board on the contract.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I can't speak about what happened at Treasury Board before I got there.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

It's not their role.

Can you give me a single example in Canadian history where Treasury Board approved a federal contribution agreement, only to withhold it until a future city council could approve the project?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Treasury Board didn't approve their contribution agreement.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Yes, they did, contingent upon a decision in the future council.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We said the contribution agreement could be signed after the new municipal council backed it.

Listen, we ran for office promising a new era of accountability, and we delivered.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

And we didn't get it. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Madame Folco.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Since dates seem to be of such importance in this matter, I'd like to ask you, Minister, whether you can tell us where and when Treasury Board met to make the decision to sign off on the light rail project.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I would have to check, but I believe it was the 10th. We'd meet in the cabinet room, as all cabinet committees do.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

The information we have is that the 9th to the 14th was a break week; no one was around. We know that ministers who sat on the secretariat at the time—Ministers MacKay, Bernier, Flaherty, Skelton, Cannon, Fortier—all these people were out of town. So who actually did you meet with on the 10th?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I had the support of the Treasury Board and the Treasury Board itself made the decision. I don't have the power to make the decision.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Where was the meeting held?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

In the cabinet room.