Government Operations Committee on April 3rd, 2008

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Do you know what was spent?

[Marilyn MacPherson]

I don't at this point, but the—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Maybe you could let us know.

But before I run out of time, can you answer the question—I'm not sure that you had a chance to—about how long this goes on?

We don't have a public appointments commissioner. We continue to want one. We don't know how long the government is going to take before they may or may not appoint somebody. So at what point does the preparatory work end and you say, “Okay, guys, I guess the government is not appointing somebody, so it's time to find something else to do for a while”?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

In terms of the work that's being done now, I'd say that by the end of the summer it would be at that type of decision point of saying—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

At the end of the summer?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

I'd say so.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Beyond the code of conduct, what are they doing?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

The selection processes that you would run for these positions would not be identical, because it's very different for the chairperson or the CEO of Canada Post from what it is for a part-time position that participates in four meetings a year with a $150 per diem. You have to scope out exactly what kinds of selection processes would be considered acceptable for all these different types of positions.

The GIC community is more than 3,000 strong, so you're looking at trying to establish, for 3,000 positions, what types of selection processes would be considered sufficient to satisfy the requirements of what's set out in the Federal Accountability Act.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I have a last question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

You're way over. Thank you.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Madame Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, madam, sir. Please know that we really appreciate the fact that you've replaced the minister, who was to appear today, on such short notice.

In my first series of questions, I'll stick to the statement. I need information and to know your role. In the third paragraph on page 1, you state the following:

PCO supports the development of the government's policy agenda, coordinates responses to issues facing the government and the country, and supports the effective operation of cabinet.

The ministers sit around a table, they face problems, you raise problems, then to try to find solutions. Could you tell us how that actually works?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

First, we start with the throne speech, which establishes the government's agenda. The role of the Privy Council Office is to ensure that the public service as a whole prepares, for the ministers, the work that must be done to carry out the initiatives and programs.

The Privy Council Office plays a coordinating role because these initiatives often require the contributions of a number of departments. The Office also has to ensure that the initiatives are carried out. To do that, it convenes the deputy ministers to meetings to determine where those initiatives stand and when they can be submitted to cabinet for approval.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

And do you report certain problems in the machinery of government to the minister? Do you suggest solutions to him?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

The programs are first distributed to the departments. For example, such and such a department must develop such and such a program. The Privy Council Office ensures that the work is done and that there is interdepartmental coordination, because these programs often involve other departments.

Some cabinet committees examine the issues before they are approved by cabinet, then proposed to Parliament, if a bill has to be prepared. We ensure that the problems are in fact addressed and that the ministers are aware of all the aspects of those problems and their repercussions. The ministers must be able to examine all the options before making an informed decision.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

What you're saying is very important. This committee has, on a number of occasions, discussed the sale of federal government buildings with the Minister of Public Works. Whether or not we agree, he came to tell us that that was a cabinet decision. The same is true of public service employees.

If I understood you correctly, the buildings issue would probably have been put before the minister or cabinet by you, a subcommittee or Public Works employees. At that point, a cabinet decision is made, and you then ensure that the measures are taken. Is that correct?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

The departments take the measures required to implement cabinet's decisions. The Privy Council Office, as a central agency, ensures that that is done. We ask where the programs stand and at what point they will be implemented, and we ensure that there is indeed interdepartmental coordination.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

With regard to the sale of buildings, was it you who pointed out a problem and reported it to cabinet?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

I'm not aware of the specific file concerning the sale of the buildings. That's not at all my field.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

We know there are major problems on the human resources side. Is that file normally one of those that should pass through the hands of the members of the Privy Council Office?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

Once again, it's physically impossible for an agency such as the Privy Council Office, which has fewer than 1,000 employees, to micromanage all files across government. That wouldn't be a good way to do it. Its role instead is to coordinate everything and to warn the Prime Minsiter when problems must be brought to his attention.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Your coordinating role means that you engage in strategic planning. Is that correct?

[Marc O'Sullivan]

Partly, yes.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Strategic plans are supposed to include time and performance indicators and so on. How is it there aren't any? When we get your plan or your three-year priorities, we very rarely see any performance indicators so that elements can be improved. How is it there aren't any?