Government Operations Committee on April 10th, 2008

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here this morning. We appreciate your attendance here again.

Minister, before I was elected I had great concerns with regard to the Liberal practice of polling. There seemed to be a poll for everything in terms of public opinion on anything, and this concern continued after I was elected and as we, as a government, took over the responsibility of managing the public purse but also managing the different departments.

I'm wondering if you can give us any insight into whether we're seeing a trend as far as polling numbers are concerned. I'm hoping they're on their way down, but I'm wondering if you can give us any kind of update in terms of what we can expect from our government in terms of public polling and what the numbers look like right now.

[Michael Fortier]

Let me comment first on the macro, and then I'll go to the micro, which is the post 2007-08 numbers.

On the macro level we have been very clear. We want to shave $10 million from the denominator from the 2006-07 fiscal year, which was approximately $31 million. This fiscal year we do not want polling expenditures to be beyond $21 million, and we have informed all departments that we will be monitoring their expenditures. There is a freeze, as you know, on syndicated polling acquisitions, if I can express it that way. Among other things, we now want ministers to sign off on polls and be aware that these polls are being commissioned, so there will be far greater controls on the process.

On the micro issue, which is this year's number, it's not in yet, but my understanding is that the number for 2007-08 will be significantly lower than it was in 2006-07.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Fantastic.

I'm wondering about polling. You talk about the ministers having to sign off. For the benefit of committee members and the general public, is there any standard that ministers are expected to think about before they sign off on these polls? I think Canadians would like to know why the government is polling at all. They would like to know which issues warrant polling and which don't.

I believe Canadians are a little suspicious of governments that simply ride the wave of public opinion on every issue. Often Canadians want their government to respond to issues based on correct information and the public interest.

[Michael Fortier]

I can't speak for all Canadians, but common sense suggests that people would understand if polls were being commissioned to figure out if program delivery was working. That should be the aim of these polls—to be an adjunct to program delivery. That's what they should do.

When ministers sign off on these polls, they will be using judgment and common sense to make sure the polls are warranted, given the particular department and the objective that is sought.

We in government understand that polling for program delivery is important, so we're not saying there won't be any more. Clearly, however, we need better controls, and for the past three months there have been better controls.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you.

To pick up on Mr. Holland's comments, there have been questions with regard to the restoration of West Block and the precinct generally. I was touring some constituents around yesterday, and they were pointing out the netting around the West Block and other things.

I'm wondering if you could update the committee, because there have been some media discussions about what's going on with the West Block. What kind of timeframe are we looking at, and what results can parliamentarians and Canadians expect?

[Michael Fortier]

I'll give you some brief comments, and then I'll let Mr. McGrath and François Guimont fill in the details.

Basically, our plan is for West Block to be completely emptied by 2010. So the folks currently there will be relocated and restoration work will begin. This is not your typical restoration. We will be hiring special trades folks to address unique masonry issues, stone issues. So the work will get done in the next few years after 2010.

Once you get the people moving, it's like a domino effect: other people start moving, and before we know it, a lot of this will have been completed and people will be back working in their old offices.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

[Michael Fortier]

I don't know if François or Tim wants to add to this.

[François Guimont]

Maybe I can add a few points and then I'll turn to my colleague. It's just as further emphasis to what the minister said.

Going back to the question about capital increase or decrease in our budget, this year, Tim, if I remember, we are getting $54 million, a tranche, which is meant to support further steps on the West Block. So this is the challenge that we have with our capital budget. Some projects are completed--a decrease in our budget--and some projects flow in as further authorities have been given, and that's the case for the West Block. So that's the first point.

The second point is the complexity of the task at hand and the domino effect, just to be more specific. Colleagues, you are aware that with the West Block it means we have to move MPs out. The Promenade Building is being refurbished, and that's a critical step. Work is proceeding very nicely there. Committee rooms are so critical for your work, and the Wellington Building then kicks in for that, so it's a parallel track, very important. The last element, which you are also familiar with, is the so-called Room 200, of which the Bank of Montreal is to be a key piece.

Why am I saying all this? It's a complicated piece of business. I think we're tracking and making solid progress. I have now put in charge a senior ADM responsible for the parliamentary precinct directorate. This is an appointment that was made a couple of months ago and it has increased the torque in tracking progress for that project. We have, frankly--and that can be tested--a very solid relationship with the House and the Senate. This is critical. That's the precinct. In the precinct we have to dance with a number of individuals in order to be able to make progress.

I have one last point and I won't be too long.

The complexity of the task is not only governance; it's also complicated buildings, by the very state they're in. I'll just give an anecdote that you'll probably associate with, and that's the Library of Parliament. You know, we were often in the paper--it's late, it's a bit more expensive. When you look at the results, I think most of you would say it's a very good piece of work, and we're very proud of it in Public Works. But that's the challenge. These are heritage buildings that are very different from, let's say, our leaseback approach to common buildings for people to work in.

So that's always a challenge, which is out there, and there will be surprises. I don't want them. I try to manage not to have surprises, but these are older buildings. That's the reality.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you very much.

I actually recall that when I was Minister of Public Works we redid the Peace Tower and the facade all around the Parliament Buildings, and our concern at that point was to have that finished for the year 2000. So yes, there are always priorities. It always takes longer than we think. It's costly and it's difficult.

I'm going to go with Madame Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, I want to go back to one of the questions that my colleague asked concerning the tank procurement program. I believe that 20 of the 100 tanks that were bought are being rebuilt.

According to a number of newspaper articles that we've recently read, the call for tenders for the upgrading of those tanks won't be issued until 2009. Ms. saint pierre, may I ask you to explain why?

[Liliane saint pierre]

We've made the purchases. That said, for the tanks to be usable by the Canadian army, an upgrade is necessary, particularly with respect to telecommunications. We intend to issue a call for tenders to invite companies interested in making those upgrades to submit their bids.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Normally these tanks are borrowed. Do they come from Germany or the Netherlands?

[Liliane saint pierre]

We proceeded in two stages. In other words, we leased tanks from the German government, and we bought some from the Netherlands. The tanks that we bought from the Netherlands will require upgrades. However, those upgrades will be the subject of calls for tenders, and we expect to issue those in 2009.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Are there any clauses concerning the German tanks that we're leasing from Germany? That's costing us something, but if we lost one tank, would we have to give another one back to Germany? There must be conditions. What about that?

[Liliane saint pierre]

There are obviously clauses. The German government has lent us tanks in good condition. If the tanks are damaged, we will restore them to good condition.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

All right.

I have another question to ask you. I expected to see $1.4 billion under the capital expenditures, perhaps in the form of an increase. Mr. Fortier, when you last appeared before the committee, Mr. McGrath and you said that a lot of money had been invested to improve the condition of the real property inventory. I expected to see something in the budget to that effect, but I unfortunately haven't seen it. Could you explain where that can be found?

[Michael Fortier]

As you know, that $1.4 billion went into the Consolidated Revenue Fund. We've already talked about that. I know you're pretending to be surprised, but you already knew it. That's always been very clear from the start.

As for the investments that must be made in the real property inventory, every year, year in, year out, we tap the budget to reinvest in real property. This year's amount of $290 million is the same as last year's. The good news is that we now have seven properties of less—

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

The maintenance of those properties cost virtually nothing, minister.

[Michael Fortier]

No. Remember there were some—

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

It didn't cost much.

[Michael Fortier]

You're right, but you're thinking of those in Vancouver that we were unfortunately unable to sell and that were more recent. All jokes aside, some of those seven properties were built a number of decades ago. So we don't have to do that work. It's done and financed, as you will remember, by the company that acquired the properties.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

That's fine.

I want to go back to your greening service or your Greening of Government Operations Stewardship. What I understood about that is that the stewardship is the boss or the implementation service. Do you intend to invest a little money, through that greening service, in the properties that need repairs?

[Michael Fortier]

No, the amounts don't come from there.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

It's completely separate.