Government Operations Committee on April 10th, 2008

[Michael Fortier]

Those are two very distinct items in Mr. Guimont's budget.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you, Ms. Bourgeois.

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Minister and Madam Chair.

Could you give me a sense of when this fairness monitor is invoked? Is there a threshold or is there not?

[Michael Fortier]

Usually a fairness monitor is hired--I guess that's the right word--or used at the beginning of a contractual process. As to examples where it was used at the beginning of a process, I could talk about the real estate, the Royal LePage, issue. The contracts go out and then they come back, and there's an issue, so they have to go back out again. That's when one would have a fairness monitor.

I believe we had a fairness monitor--correct me if I'm wrong--on the military procurement on the C-17. Did we?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

At what threshold do you bring it in, or is it just depending?

[Michael Fortier]

It's a risk analysis. It's not just a monetary threshold.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

There is no monetary threshold.

You're telling me that the fairness monitor is only there at the beginning. Is that to make sure that the contract's terms are fair?

[Michael Fortier]

Yes, that the process is fair. That's right.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

The process is fair.

[Michael Fortier]

There is a policy, which we will table with you, Madam Chair, and your clerk, that we don't have with us right now.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Okay.

When a contract is awarded, the unsuccessful bidder is given a debriefing. It's not just a professional courtesy; it's actually in the procurement rules: “...on request of a supplier whose tender was not selected for award, provide pertinent information to that supplier concerning the reasons for not selecting its tender, the relevant characteristics and advantages of the tender selected and the name of the winning supplier.” That briefing is usually done face-to-face. That wasn't done in the case of the CGI-TPG contract. Why not?

[François Guimont]

I'll turn to my colleague Liliane.

[Liliane saint pierre]

Yes, you are right in the sense of the normal practices related to providing the right to the supplier to get a debriefing. The supplier has choices, either a debriefing or information via letter, depending on the circumstances. In this specific case, because we were already involved with some challenges related to the trade tribunal, the supplier was provided information via letter.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

A letter?

[Liliane saint pierre]

Yes, with the results of the evaluation.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

A $400 million contract that was very controversial, and they got a letter. They didn't get any kind of debriefing.

[Liliane saint pierre]

If he had specifically requested and I could really verify on the file—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

They had specifically requested.

[Liliane saint pierre]

I can confirm to you that the results of his evaluation were provided via letter.

[Michael Fortier]

With respect, what Madame saint pierre is saying is that when a potential supplier decides to seek redress from the courts, the process of having face-to-face...that option doesn't exist, but we do reply to their questions in writing. Is that correct?

[Liliane saint pierre]

Yes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

My understanding is that in this case they were attempting to meet. They went the court route because basically your department shut them down. I'm just trying to establish this in terms of what the taxpayer is going to be on the hook for if your department did not do its job.

I have another question. Did your staff attempt to hire TPG employees to complete the CGI contract, yes or no?

[Michael Fortier]

My staff or the department?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Your department.

[Michael Fortier]

François will answer.