Evidence of meeting #27 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was offices.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Are you trying to find out whether they've found out about you?
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you very much.
I find your presentation has been an excellent presentation. One of the lessons I've learned from sitting on these committees when we have bureaucrats from the various departments is that I often wonder, when at the end of the meeting we're more confused than when we started, whether the presenters feel it was probably a good presentation. Today, however, we have very clearly laid-out numbers to work with.
I am going to ask for clarification in a few areas. I'm looking at the Ontario region, with 13,200 employees, and headquarters, which of course I won't count as part of Ontario at all. Could you tell us how many offices there are in Ontario at this time?
Assistant Commissioner, Human Resources Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
I can do a quick head count. I'd say about 17 or 18, off the top of my head.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
That's 17 or 18 offices? That's good to know. I'm not in any way here advocating for the separate province of Northern Ontario, but I know my staff rely heavily on Sudbury. Sudbury is an excellent operation, and we have a great relationship with the staff.
Assistant Commissioner, Human Resources Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
That's great to hear.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I want to commend you for the responsiveness of the staff in the Sudbury office.
I'm noticing here in terms of the drop in the number of employees between 2003 and 2007—that's slide number 4—that Ontario region took a drop of about 1,300 employees, and yet we saw a boost to headquarters of 1,000. Was that a transfer of employees out of the various offices in Ontario and into headquarters?
Assistant Commissioner, Human Resources Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
No, I think what you're seeing is some of the impacts associated with technology, when you get some of that happening. Also, in order to ensure that we make use of expertise where the expertise is, we move work out of some locations to other locations through a virtual management type of relationship. So the manager might be in one location, but the people doing the work might be in another location.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
So you're saying that was perhaps an issue in the drop, dealing with what you had already identified as overcapacity.
Assistant Commissioner, Human Resources Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
And some of the tech change issues as well.
We have three tax centres in the Ontario region. There's Sudbury, which you're familiar with. There's the Ottawa technology centre, which has also felt some impacts related to technological change. And to a much smaller extent, our international tax services office has also had some ripple effects from technological change.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
In our office we deal with low-income people who have no idea how to fill tax forms out, and they come in asking us for help. We have people who have been identified with CRA as a problem. When CRA puts their claws into someone, it's extremely stressful, so they come to us. They throw all their papers on the table, and they ask us to help them find a way through this. We have to figure out whether we have people who knowingly misrepresented, people who have lost paper, or people who actually have a very good and legitimate story. We have to work our way through that mountain of paper. So we deal with the CRA staff, and that's where we have found the CRA very helpful.
I'm wondering if you have overcapacity because of the ability of people to file problem-free tax forms. What is your presence of phone service people who can deal with people in very stressful situations, when they get that letter from CRA saying they're on the hook for however many thousands of dollars? Do you have an active phone bank of people who can deal with the public?
Assistant Commissioner, Human Resources Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Absolutely. We have six call centres that are set up to handle calls from individuals and three calls centres for business. In addition, there's a collections call centre. Depending on what number they've been given on their notice to phone, generally speaking they will connect with one of those areas.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I'm looking at your internal representation of employment equity. I see aboriginal people. Can you work me through these numbers: 2.4%, 2.7%, and 2.2%?
Assistant Commissioner, Human Resources Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
I'm sorry, what was your question?
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
On deck 12, I'm looking at aboriginal people. We have 2.4%, 2.7%, and 2.2%. What are those numbers?
Assistant Commissioner, Human Resources Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
The 2.2% is the labour market availability based on the 2001 Statistics Canada census across the country. Using those numbers, we try to ensure that we have a minimum of 2.2% of our employees who have self-identified as aboriginal people. In 2004, 2.4% of our population self-identified as aboriginal. In 2007, that went up to 2.7%.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Excellent. I point that out because in a previous life I did economic development with the Algonquin Nation in Quebec. We often dealt with tax law. It was often very Kafkaesque trying to figure out what you were legitimately entitled to if you were setting up an on-reserve business or you were doing work off reserve.
How much of your aboriginal force of employees are spread through the general operation? Do you have an aboriginal component that deals with aboriginal tax law?
Assistant Commissioner, Human Resources Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Our aboriginal employees are spread throughout the organization. We don't have a specific unit of aboriginal employees that deals just with aboriginal issues.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
In terms of aboriginal tax issues, do you have a special department, or is that worked through your general Sudbury or Toronto office?
Assistant Commissioner, Human Resources Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
In headquarters there is a group that does look at the aboriginal taxation issues. When you go to the service delivery points, whether that's Sudbury or Calgary, to the best of my knowledge that's part of the general work that the office does.
Liberal
Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval—Les Îles, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Gauvin, I want to stay on the same topic as my colleague who was inquiring on first nations. My question concerns the presence of visible minorities within your agency. A few days ago, I heard news of a suicide at Canadian Heritage; the deceased had been refused a promotion. The person was Canadian, of course, and of Haitian origin. That led me to reflect at length on the issue, as I have also heard of other employees, who are black and who were refused positions for which I thought they were very qualified. This does not concern you, but I'm simply providing context to my question.
As regards employment equity legislation, what figures could you provide showing the presence of visible minorities employed by the Canada Revenue Agency throughout Canada? Secondly, what is the turnover rate for visible minorities in Canada? Those are my first questions.
