Government Operations Committee on Nov. 28th, 2007

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Would this expertise be 100% in-house, or would they be consultants?

[Michael Presley]

It's a combination of both. By the time we're fully staffed up with this organization, we'll probably have about four or five full-time indeterminate staff. They would be available, as experts, to provide that kind of analysis to departments. We also augment it with dollars on a cost-shared basis so that consultants can be hired. We can't assume that four or five people will corner the market in terms of all the expertise needed for the vast array of benefit-cost analyses that might need to be done across all these different departments.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Let me try to understand this. Out of $3.4 million, you're saying that half of that money is going to go to consultants?

[Michael Presley]

The amount that will be flowing to the regulatory force sector is $2.4 million. Within that $2.4 million, about $750,000 will be spent on that centre this year. The balance will be to develop guides and develop more assistance in terms of benefit-cost analysis, international trade cooperation, performance measurement, service standards, as well as providing conferences and other events so the regulatory community can learn more about this, along with developing curricula at the School of Public Service for each of those courses. It's that kind of enabling role that those investments are organized around.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Madame Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

On page 2 of your remarks, Mr. Wouters, you say that the government has established a new expenditure management system.

The Public Accounts Committee and the Treasury Board Secretariat, I believe, have asked that the accrual accounting method be adopted as the mode of operation.

Could you tell us where you stand on that idea?

[Wayne Wouters]

I'm going to ask David to answer.

[David Moloney, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you.

The Treasury Board Secretariat is developing models and advice for the president and eventually for Cabinet. As the committee knows, the government has made a commitment to come back to Parliament before the end of this fiscal year with concrete proposals in hand.

The President has invited a certain number of members to dialogue with us, the Secretariat's executives. Those discussions started, then progressed in September and October. I think we'll soon be in a position to provide the President with solid advice. The government intends to be in a position to come back to the committee and Parliament by the end of the year with a concrete proposal in hand.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

All right. We members of the ad hoc committee that was established had a meeting today at noon. My colleague, Mr. Kramp, attended it as well.

I told my colleagues that the Auditor General of Canada had mentioned that the Treasury Board Secretariat had to be able to take a position on one of the four accounting options so that it could then perhaps come and meet with the committee to see if that suited it.

Who in your department is directing efforts to implement the accrual accounting method? Who could we, as members of an ad hoc committee, invite so that he could tell us how far you've advanced in your efforts?

[David Moloney]

This is a shared responsibility between the expenditure management sector—that is myself, as Assistant Secretary—and one of my counterparts at the Office of the Comptroller General, John Morgan. Mr. Morgan and I manage this work. We've already met with that group of members.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Have you already established an overall implementation plan, even though you have not decided on the type of accounting? Do you have a plan containing objectives, deadlines, performance indicators? Do you have anything to give us to date?

[David Moloney]

It is possible to develop progress indicators. However, concrete results-based indicators are hard to develop. It is difficult to estimate implications in terms of spent or better managed funds.

With the aid of the members, we have more clearly established the strong and weak points, as well as the [Inaudible - Editor] for the departments and parliamentarians. I think we're now in a position to offer the minister serious options so that the government can take a position.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

As regards accrual-based accounting or a different presentation of financial statements, Pricewaterhouse—I believe that's in your forecasts—mentioned that we needed additional personnel, particularly for external auditing and accountants. We apparently need people who are really trained in this type of accounting.

Have you already begun taking steps to hire highly skilled personnel?

[David Moloney]

The Office of the Comptroller General is trying to hire other qualified accountants and is conducting this exercise in order to meet the needs of all the departments. So it has developed an action plan which it is currently following.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Do I still have some time? At least I think so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you, madam, but the time allotted to you has expired.

Are there any questions?

Mr. Albrecht.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I'd just like to ask a question regarding the Public Service Modernization Act. In your comments—and I don't have them printed, so I may not have them totally correct—you referred to the competitive labour market situation we're in and that you're changing the way of recruiting and retaining staff. Could you elaborate on that a bit in terms of how you're going about that?

[Rick Burton]

Yes, I'd be happy to.

There are really two elements. One is faster recruiting and staffing internally, within the public service, so that as departments define their needs and do their long-term planning they have more flexibility to get people into jobs quicker.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

My question is how you deal with this increased competition if you're limited—

[Rick Burton]

One of the things we're finding, which we actually have as one element of the public service renewal action plan for this year, is that we need to increase the number of post-secondary recruits from universities by about 900, up to a total of 3,000 this year.

One of the things we're trying to do, and the Public Service Commission is actually working on this, is to figure out how we can make job offers on the spot, because quite often, if you want to be competitive with private sector firms you have to be as agile as they are. Sometimes it's as simple as being there at the right time of the year, not leaving it until the end—after everyone else has come through earlier in the fall, perhaps.

Those are the kinds of things we're working on in terms of practical solutions to attract people.

The other element, and an important one, of the Public Service Modernization Act has to do with the long-term retention of people. That's changing the culture of the workplace so that it doesn't seem stultifying; so that people don't feel that there's not a friendly and healthy environment they can work in, because if you recruit them and they encounter that, within a short period of time, like all of us, they'd be gone.

It's trying to focus on those two aspects in parallel.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

So it's more directed at quality of work and timing of offers than it is to monetary compensation.

Is monetary compensation a huge issue?

[Rick Burton]

Monitoring the compensation part is more in the realm of the Treasury Board Secretariat, in terms of competitive rates for this job versus that job, and so on. This is more about how you can facilitate and ease recruitment into the public service, and once you have people there, train them and offer them a career and a work environment that will make them want to stay.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I think those should be applauded. I just want to get to the heart of it, in terms of whether we are restricted because of compensation—in terms of monetary compensation—or whether we are able to offer a competitive salary, for example, for specialized positions.

[Wayne Wouters]

This government actually has approved a new compensation framework, and one of the key principles in that compensation framework is that while we do not necessarily want to lead the market, we need to be competitive with the market. That's normally with those who are entering into the public service; we think we have to be that. Therefore, part of our collective bargaining strategy will reflect that.

The other point Rick has noted is that we did not recruit for many years. Now we all have recruitment targets; we are all very aggressively out there in colleges and universities across the country recruiting—including our organization, the Treasury Board Secretariat: we have a marketer; we're trying to get the message out about why our area is the most interesting area in which to work in government. We're on campus and are going to basically try to recruit and make offers as quickly as we can. It's a whole new world I think for all of us, after years of not recruiting.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

And the response has been positive?