Evidence of meeting #7 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transaction.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
I'd just like to know if that's the case, because I don't have a lot of time. I would like to spend all day with you—
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I spoke with Kent Kirkpatrick, the city manager, and an agreement in principle has been reached with the Province of Ontario whereby, over a two- to three-year period, they will collect 100%. They will keep all of the money.
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
They keep 100% of the money, and it goes to the—
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, they get to keep 100% of the money.
Here's what happens in Ontario for what are called granting properties. In the past, the municipality got to keep all of the money for granting properties, not only at the federal level but at the provincial level as well. Even when the provincial government changes ownership—when it does P3s, for example—the city is losing money as a result of that. So they took on this larger issue, not only at the federal level but at the provincial level, and they have been dealing with the province in order to retain ownership of that particular money.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Up until that point, the money would have gone to Toronto and not come back, but since the issue has been raised, there has been an arrangement between the City of Ottawa and the province such that the money will stay in Ottawa.
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
They had started working on this even prior to the sale, and it wasn't only with federal properties, it was with provincial properties as well.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Just to be clear, it was the City of Ottawa finance folks who were telling us about the fact that they will have $4 million less as a result of the sale. Were they wrong?
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, they weren't wrong at the time. When they were talking to you, they hadn't reached the agreement with the province. They have been working on it for—
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I spoke with Kent Kirkpatrick as recently as four weeks ago and again just recently, and he said they've reached an agreement in principle with the province.
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Right.
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It's all of the money, though. There's not a change in the quantity.
4:45 p.m.
Minister of Public Works and Government Services
Does that mean you're now in favour of the deal?
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
No, not at all.
I want to go on to another building, the RCMP building, if I can. It was the deal that was the inversion of that. You're buying a building, or you are at least leasing it for a very long time, but you could have bought it for $30 million. Now, goodness knows how much we'll pay in the end.
What's the cost of the JDS building in terms of preparing that site, and are they ready to move in? Are there any problems with the site itself, any unanticipated concerns?
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
In terms of the JDS building and the present value of the lease payment, the value of the lease is only $7.29 a square foot, which at the time was reported as one of the best deals in Canada when that deal was put through and reported in a number of commercial magazines.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt and I don't mean to be impolite, but I'm asking if it's on schedule and whether the costs are still within the deal that was struck.
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The costs are still within, although the RCMP have changed some of the requirements in terms of who is moving into the building.
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
They just looked at different groups. Because of the growth of the RCMP, they've realigned some of the groups that will be moving into the building. However, the building has been able to handle those particular changes and we're still on budget for that particular project.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
So the costs won't go up as a result of the change of who is coming into the building, in terms of fit-ups and that sort of thing.
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
That's correct, not at all.