Evidence of meeting #43 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, Product Management, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Indeed.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
You say that you received 11 responses. Could you table with the committee the responses that you received in that regard?
Director General, Product Management, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, we can make the request.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
We would like to have the requests, responses and the way in which the responses were given. Thank you.
As for the small and medium enterprises that are affected or, rather, are interested, have there been many requests from Gatineau? Is the process open to companies from across Canada? How does it all work?
Chief Operating Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
May I clarify? Is it concerning a request for the solicitation of interest?
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
Yes, among other things, since the industry was consulted. Responses were therefore received.
As you know, there is a debate underway in the region, and it has been said that 98.4% of federal government contracts for the region of Ottawa-Gatineau are awarded to Ottawa, and that Gatineau companies received only 1.6%.
Have all small and medium enterprises in Gatineau been approached in a consistent manner in the various IT solicitation areas?
Perhaps Ms. Payant could respond to that. My time for asking questions is being eaten up.
Chief Operating Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Madam Chair, the solicitation was open to all sizes of organization, and therefore it is difficult for us to give you a response concerning what percentage of those small and medium-sized enterprises may have expressed an interest.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
I assume that, if you can give us the reports, you can also tell us whether SMEs from Outaouais and Ottawa are involved.
Chief Operating Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We could undertake to review that question and get back to you.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
Very well. Do I still have some time left?
When Public Works and Government Services Canada launches the competitive bidding process, which is referred to as stage 24 in the 2010 chart, how much will the total cost of that operation come out to?
Chief Operating Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Let me clarify, Madam Chair.
Are you referring to the GENS solicitation that we are applying to put on the street in the next two months?
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
I am talking about what you refer to as stage 24 in your chart for 2010, which includes all of the stages from 1 to 24. It is the cost of the operation.
Chief Operating Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Anticipating that the organization that has expressed an interest in taking this up, which is HRSD and Immigration Canada.... The total implementation cost over a period of eight years is estimated to be in the range of $83 million.
Liberal
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I sometimes want to call this the book report committee. It strikes me that for all the various requests for information—which it is our privilege to make, of course—when we get the information, whoever has requested it should do a book report to show that they've actually read it, as distinct to just asked for it. But I certainly do not want to stop any member from having the privilege of asking. I would only ask that we be sensitive to our officials. Reports for valid merit, we all accept. In the case of asking for reports so as to say that we've asked for a report, but which we never read, I'd be quite troubled.
I may say that again at a future committee meeting.
I'd like to thank our guests for being back. It's great to have you here, and thank you for the hard work you do.
Could you please take me back a little to the logic, because I think it may have been lost in some of the questions I've heard. Just briefly, why are we doing this? That is, not why are you doing more reports and why did you come back, but what was the intent and why did we decide to undertake GENS? I would ask Madame Charette.
Chief Information Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
It's an excellent question: why does the government need a new procurement vehicle for telecommunications?
I will answer in part and then pass it on to my colleague at Public Works.
Fundamentally, telecommunications is a key component of the IM/IT operation of government, supporting program delivery in just about all agencies and ministries. It has been there and in use for many years, and like any technology and any asset, its current generation has a useful life. In the case of HRSD and Immigration Canada, they are really at the end of the useful life of their telecommunications services, have requirements that they are unable to meet with their current facilities, and in consultation with Public Works have concluded that there are better alternatives available to them. The genesis is really maintaining infrastructure in the most cost-effective, efficient way.
John, you might want to add to that.
Chief Operating Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Certainly. Thank you for the question.
Having myself been part of the line department, HRSD, I would add that the initial genesis for looking at this converged technology that we call GENS occurred because the service providers are providing it to us in converged form. In fact, we are dismantling it when it comes through our door to separate out data streams, video streams, and voice streams.
You may also, Madam Chair, find in your own home that you have service provided by one supplier, as opposed to three or four. The reason we're moving down this road is to keep up with technology, as my colleague suggests. It is to take advantage of what we believe are some significant cost savings that we believe we'll be able to achieve by putting in place one contract with the services that we've identified through the documentation that we provided to you, which will avoid having maybe 10 or 12, as is the case in HRSD. Currently at HRSD I believe they have 11 contracts to provide telecommunication services.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
So what you're really saying is rationalize and modernize. As a business person, frankly, I understand.
I have a question for you, Madam Payant. I thought I heard you say in some of the comments you've made that SMEs wanted to handle the service aspects of this business. Do you have any concerns about consistent service for SMEs to be able to handle very large projects, or are you reasonably comfortable with those who are interested in such a service to be able to provide this that they're capable of doing so?
Director General, Product Management, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Let me say that SMEs are a key component of all of government IT business. They provide a wide variety of services. We use a number of procurement vehicles to engage SMEs, not just within the telecommunications domain to support departments and agencies, but within all the domains of IT. We use a task-based informatics professional services vehicle to acquire professional services, primarily SMEs, to assist departments and agencies implementing, for example, some of their telecommunications components. They are a key component of all the IT services across the Government of Canada. We continue to do business with SMEs through those procurement vehicles. Those procurement vehicles will continue to be used with GENS to support departments in their specific implementation and in supporting them in their specific requirements.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
I appreciate that.
I'm not sure you had an opportunity to respond, but a member opposite asked earlier whether you are ultimately asking for a blank cheque. I wasn't sure that you were given an opportunity to respond. That's not what I heard you ask for. Could you clarify whether that's what you're asking for?
Chief Operating Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for that question.
The procurement process that we are following is one that is well entrenched and one that is used for the procurement of any service that's provided to the federal government. The services offered through this vehicle are optional, and, as we say, the departments that choose to use these services must go through a business case on their own to determine whether it's feasible for them to use those services. We believe, in fact, Madam Chair, that the vehicle we're going to put in place will be more cost-effective for departments.
They are spending this money today through other vehicles. We're putting one in place that we think rationalizes the services we're giving and at the same time provides a wider range of technologies and services to their departments.
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you very much.
I have to say I understand the business reason for rationalization. I get it. When we're told there are 124 networks, that sounds like a lot, and the idea of rationalizing and having a procurement process make a lot of sense. I have to say I've been quite taken aback to learn that there are only three departments; you've only actually referred to HRSDC and immigration, so that's two, and I don't even know what the third one is.
This whole thing seems backwards. If the owners of those networks haven't been asking for this rationalization and there doesn't seem to be interest on their part, and there seems to be no corresponding ability on your part, or on the part of whoever would actually be the entity to do this, to then enforce this rationalization onto those other departments.... I'm questioning now why this is even happening.
Whose idea was it? How do you reconcile the fact that the purpose is to rationalize 124 networks, but you only have a few that are either interested or may ultimately participate in it, because you can't force the other ones to do it? There's a huge amount of money involved and, I have to say, a huge amount of time on behalf of committee members. Help me with this. This came as a bit of a shock to us.
Chief Operating Officer, Information Technology Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The intent has always been for us to put in place a vehicle for organizations that are needing it as soon as possible. That's the nature of--
