Government Operations Committee on May 12th, 2010

[Richard Denis, Procedural Clerk]

Certainly. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Despite the provincial letter we're talking about here, there's no problem with the committee asking for the documents. The committee can send for records and they can even be summoned. They're protected, however, by parliamentary privilege, and as we know, they cannot be used in another place.

However, given the confidential nature of the documents Mr. Snowdy is referring to, the committee might want to consider a mechanism by which the confidential tabled documents could be protected by either looking at them in camera or by finding a way of looking at them so that some of the information is protected. It's for the committee to decide how they want to deal with the situation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you very much.

We will now go to Mr. Brown for eight minutes.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

I'm sharing my time with Mr. Gourde. He's going to begin.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Mr. Snowdy, thank you for being with us today to assist us in broadening our study of the renewable energy projects financed by the government. Unlike by opposition colleagues, I'm going to focus my questions on the subject the committee agreed to examine today.

Mr. Snowdy, have you previously had any business dealings with Mr. Jaffer and Mr. Glémaud or with other individuals from the Green Power Generation Corporation?

[Derrick Snowdy]

No.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Mr. Snowdy, have you previously been engaged in business relations specifically concerning renewable energy projects with the Government of Canada?

[Derrick Snowdy]

No.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Do you have any other information related to the committee's study of renewable energy projects funded by the Government of Canada that you would like to share with us today?

[Derrick Snowdy]

I can't think of anything related to this case that touched on any government program, sir.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Snowdy. I believe it is clear, in light of the answers you've given me, that that my next questions will not likely be related to the study we have to conduct today in committee. I would like to share the rest of the time allotted to me with my colleague Patrick Brown.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Go ahead, Mr. Brown.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think it's very important to know everyone involved in this entire affair, which has certainly sparked a lot of interest amongst parliamentarians and those around the country.

The first question I have for Mr. Snowdy is this: does the president of the Liberal Party, Alfred Apps, have a relationship with Nazim Gillani?

[Derrick Snowdy]

That was one of the situations we grappled with on April 8. Mr. Gillani had made representations that he was represented legally by Mr. Alfred Apps at Fasken Martineau. I did some investigating and found out that indeed Mr. Apps did work for Mr. Gillani. In fact, Mr. Gillani had paid a retainer to Fasken Martineau with respect to litigating one of Mr. Gillani's previous victims into bankruptcy. The counterclaim to that action was a cookie cutter for Mr. Gillani's other fraudulent business activities. That case was transferred from Fasken Martineau to another Toronto law firm to litigate. I've actually tracked down the email in which Mr. Gillani discusses with counsel of the other firm the transfer of the retainer from Fasken to their firm.

Mr. Apps had been Mr. Gillani's counsel in that matter and in fact helped to construct one of the issues. One of the fears my client had was of being litigated by Mr. Gillani and Mr. Apps when they came forward, as he did bankrupt the other victim.

In that matter, that case is an Ontario Superior Court case, 07-CV-329370PD3, and the counterclaim to that action from the defendants is, as I said, the cookie cutter for how these other frauds were committed. The email attached to the back of it in the affidavit refers back to the issue at Fasken, and I did call Fasken and spoke with a clerk with respect to identifying their case file representing Mr. Gillani.

The issue my client dealt with on the day was that as things spiralled out of control here in Ottawa and Mr. Ignatieff was calling on the Prime Minister for information on Ms. Guergis.... I mean, eight days before, he was calling for the woman's head on a platter, and now he was taking certain conduct.... My clients were getting more and more nervous, knowing full well that Mr. Apps was the getaway driver for Mr. Gillani in a previous encounter.

I did research this morning, and apparently this court file is missing from the Toronto courthouse, but, luckily enough, I have a copy of it.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

It would be interesting to have a copy for the committee.

We speak about the getaway driver for Mr. Gillani. Mr. Apps, once again, is the president of the Liberal Party of Canada. Is there anything else that you'd like to add to this relationship that you found in your investigations? Is this a relationship that only ended once this became a national issue?

[Derrick Snowdy]

I'm sorry; is that with respect to Mr. Gillani and...?

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

It's with respect to the relationship between Mr. Gillani and Mr. Apps.

[Derrick Snowdy]

As far as I understood, Mr. Apps was trying to distance himself from Mr. Gillani for a while, but he was in full knowledge of Mr. Gillani's business activities. I understand that Mr. Gillani even sent out an email as recently as a month or two ago that indicated Mr. Apps had referred business to him. I believe that was in March of this year.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

That was in 2010.

[Derrick Snowdy]

That's my understanding.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Okay.

I understand that the file has been transferred to.... What is the name of the firm it has been transferred to?

[Derrick Snowdy]

It was transferred to the firm Teplitsky, Colson.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Do you know when it was transferred to that firm?

[Derrick Snowdy]

I don't know when it was transferred to that firm. I believe their file number should go by the court file number for the Superior Court with the respect to the dates, but I can tell you that they severed, or attempted to sever, the relationship with him on May 28, 2008. This case was in Mr. Gillani's previous incarnation, before ISI Investments, which was created synonymously with ISI Funds. ISI Funds is a very reputable financial institution, but he structured the name similarly.

This financing company or venture capital firm that Mr. Gillani was operating at that time was known as Otnorot Holdings, which is just “Toronto” spelled backwards. It wasn't very creative.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

We understand from the media reports that when there was this information you found, you also contacted the Liberal Party. Was one of the motivations for contacting the Liberal Party the relationship with Mr. Apps and Mr. Gillani?

[Derrick Snowdy]

I had no personal motivation to contact the Liberal Party. What's lost in translation here is that I phoned a direct number that was not exactly the number listed in the phone book. I was given that number directly by a friend, associate, and client named Mark Kealey, who is a prominent Liberal fundraiser and active Liberal. I consulted with him throughout the day, as he had previously been CEO of a company that had been defrauded by Mr. Gillani.

As we watched the circus going on up here, bluntly put, we all felt it was spiralling out of control, and he said, “You've got to let these guys know what we know to slow this down.”