Evidence of meeting #17 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gillani.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
Do you have any idea why Mr. Gillani failed to mention who his getaway driver was? Is there any reason why he would have kept that secret?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Mr. Brown, you have five seconds left.
You can answer the question. Did you answer his question?
Liberal
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you, Chair.
Mr. Snowdy, when you were undercover and meeting with Mr. Gillani, he led you to believe that he could set up or had set up bank accounts in Belize to use as shell corporations, or whatever people use offshore bank accounts for. In an interview with the CBC, you said that you actually picked out a name of a shell company in Belize. He said that it was already held by Mr. Jaffer and that he would put you in touch with Mr. Jaffer and you could talk about that.
Do you remember the name of the company on the list that he said was actually being held for Mr. Jaffer?
As an Individual
I actually know a bit about these types of transactions. Part of my investigative field is these types of transactions and financing. What I said to him was that I'd take the top three oldest incorporations.
Now, if I were interested in conducting offshore activities that way, the reason I would want the three oldest commercial companies is that once they're past the incorporation date by a year, under some Central American banking agreements they qualify for commercial credit. If you were going to wash money through--deposit stock, sell it, and deposit the cash into an account--what you would do then is get a corporate credit card, say a Visa or MasterCard, and you would just spend money paid into that account, rather than try to take cash out through an ATM machine, which is what Mr. Gillani was suggesting: creating ATM machines in Central American banks, and people would draw it out here at white-label machines.
As an Individual
That was the reason I asked him. He said that these were reserved for Rahim and his wife, and he said, “I can hook you up if you need to talk.”
As an Individual
It was strange. Belize was strange. To get the top three, I'd have to go back to the actual list.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Could you share that with us? We need a few more specifics about those top three. Obviously, we'd be interested in knowing the veracity of that.
As an Individual
I'll have to look at my copy of the list. I think I may have given my final copy to the RCMP--
As an Individual
--but I will try to find that for you, and I can submit it to the committee through your clerk.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Okay, that would be interesting. Thank you.
The other thing is that in August 2009, you were working for HD Retail Solutions Inc. They were getting angry or restless because the venture capital they were promised wasn't coming through. You said that a figure of about $5 million was what Gillani led them to believe they could get in terms of a loan from the green infrastructure fund. That money didn't seem to be forthcoming.
Had they paid for this money? Did they put some money up so that Mr. Gillani could get them this money from the green infrastructure fund?
As an Individual
They had paid him a venture capitalist fee. A consulting fee is probably the better phrase that most people would recognize, but there were numerous levels to how this scheme was to play out. Some were commissions on grants. Some was paying for loans. Some was selling these offshore corporations to nominee account holders.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
The only part of it that really is relevant to us is whether this honest company you represented was led to believe that Gillani, through Jaffer, could get access to the green infrastructure loan money.
As an Individual
Their business model is to assist companies in renovating and in marketable storefronts, and so on, and changing those programs. The president of HD reported back to me that at the meeting at La Castile he was coached by Mr. Gillani and Mr. Jaffer to present green initiatives for the company in front of Mr. Glémaud and the others.
I'll give you an example. One idea would be that they would rewrite their business model to suggest that they would replace incandescent lighting with compact fluorescent bulbs. The other example was that they would streamline the delivery of inventory management systems using hybrid vehicles and recycled tires. Basically, it was to spin their business model--