Government Operations Committee on Nov. 24th, 2011

[Michelle d'Auray]

Right.

[Bill Matthews]

If I understand correctly, this is in Mr. Page's report.

He has provided an analysis of the estimates to date, which is for the main estimates plus supplementary estimates (A) and supplementary estimates (B). The amount that's actually driving that is the Treasury Board central vote related to severance, which we discussed a bit earlier at this meeting. Supplementary estimates (A) contained $1.3 billion. Because TBS is the employer and has a central vote, we have all of that amount in personnel expenditures. So he was adding that all together. That is actually painting a bit of a misleading picture about TBS as a department.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

They're all finished.

Mathieu, you're well over your time.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

I was going to ask you how it was misleading, but that's okay. I'm out of time.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Actually, just before we go to the next questioner, I'd like a point of clarification, if you don't mind.

We talked about the AECL divestiture in part of one of the statutory items of $285 million. Can you just remind me what the agreement was between the government and SNC-Lavalin? I understood that we more or less paid them to take over AECL for us. Now my understanding is that we're giving them another $285 million to offset any liability they may have inherited when we gave them this company. Is that right?

[Bill Matthews]

The agreement was not for all of AECL. It was for part of AECL.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

It was for only the profitable part.

[Bill Matthews]

That part of the organization actually had some refurbishment or life extension types of projects--I believe the Bruce Power plant is one, and there's one in Korea--which are known to be incurring costs greater than the revenue. That was the part of the deal where the government agreed, as the secretary mentioned, to put a cap on how much, but basically backstopped the liabilities on those three or four specific projects.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

So that was part of the original deal?

[Michelle d'Auray]

It was because the original contracts and the original liabilities were incurred by the Government of Canada. That was done by the commercial arm of AECL, and the contracts were signed by the crown and, therefore, the crown was still responsible and is still responsible.

The company has agreed to take on the responsibility for delivering on the contracts, but the refurbishment contracts were signed many years ago by the crown, by the Government of Canada. I think there were three or four, and I think that of the four, two of them have been closed and the other two are on the verge of being completed.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

It seems to me like the kind of deal that Jack and the Beanstalk would make.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

It's called corporate welfare.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

It's 5:15. Isn't that when we're done?

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Yes, that's true. I suppose we are.

Is that the agreement of the committee?

Well, I know, Scott, you came all the way over here to question--

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

We're going to go in camera in both.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

If I told you I came all the way from Newfoundland this morning, would you believe me?

[An hon. member]

No.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

You'd probably be right.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

As Chair, if I could suggest this. We don't have very much to do in the private in camera portion of the meeting. I think it will only take a minute or two. Is there a willingness of the committee to give the Liberals their last turn questioning the Treasury Board?

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

That would be fine for us, yes.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

No more than five minutes, and then we've got to go.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Five minutes.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Scotty gets the last five minutes.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

The last five minutes are for the Liberals and then we'll go to our camera work.

All right, Scott, you have the floor.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I'd like to apologize to my guests for witnessing the abuse that I received.