Evidence of meeting #19 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pat Martin
That makes sense. Now I see why there are shacks in Attawapiskat. I can't editorialize because I'm in the chair.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
In response to whether it includes everything—housing, infrastructure, education, and administration—yes.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
Mr. Chair, could I just clarify—
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
No, it's just to clarify her point. That can't be the amount including education per child—
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Armstrong Conservative Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS
—because that would take up the whole amount of money.
4:15 p.m.
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I can get back to the committee with some more detailed information if you prefer.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pat Martin
I think that's important for the committee. If the sum total aggregate amount of spending for that community was $80 million for that six years, $50,000 per person, I understand that to mean that's everything from all five of the government departments that feed health, education, infrastructure, INAC—
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
My question is really where in the supplementary estimates we will find this information.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
I think we're getting a little bit away from it, and I think it's a great topic for the aboriginal affairs committee.
Thank you.
November 29th, 2011 / 4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, distinguished guests. It's good to see some of you.
I participated earlier this fall in the aboriginal and northern affairs committee, and we talked about the resolution of native claim lands. I'm glad to see a large number here.
In your presentation you talked about $2.5 billion that's been set aside for the resolution of specific claims, and that's a big number. I can understand the need to resort to supplemental estimates, because these kinds of negotiations are inherently unpredictable. There are lots of twists and turns.
Could you describe what's involved in the implementation of the resolution of these claims and some of the creative approaches the department is using that might differ from what was done 10 to 20 years ago, and why those things are perhaps leading to additional costs? Hopefully that will lay a framework for long-term benefits for first nations, in terms of resolution of the claims, better governance, and then ultimately some form of self-government.
4:15 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Certainly this is an area in which a lot of progress has been made over the last two years. In 2007 the government announced a new initiative called “Justice at Last”, which responded directly to the frustrations expressed by communities about the slow pace of these outstanding claims. Some of them went back decades without any resolution or solution. So we put in place a fairly aggressive process by which within three years of receiving a claim we would have completed the assessment and made a decision as to whether we accepted the claim—whether or not there was a legal obligation—or we refused the claim. Then after that would be another three-year timeframe within which the claim would be negotiated and an offer would be made and hopefully resolved.
After three years, the first nation has the option of taking the claim directly to the specific claims tribunal, which is now up and running and hearing cases. It has five cases now.
In terms of assessments, we have completely cleared the backlog that existed back in 2007-08. Now we're in the process of negotiating many of those claims we have accepted to negotiate. There are over 300 claims currently under negotiation. Some of them are fairly small. Some of them are fairly big. We've made some changes. For example, for the small claims, in order to avoid a lot of the legal costs, the negotiating costs, we have a fast-track process through which we can simply resolve the claim very quickly without the first nation incurring loans. That's one of the approaches.
The other approach we've taken is to do shared valuation studies, so that at the end of the day when a settlement number is put on the table, the first nation is not surprised, because they were part of the valuation. So if they lost 10,000 acres of land 100 years ago, we know how to evaluate what that land is worth today; they will have all that information, and that hopefully will lead to a quicker and easier solution and settlement.
The progress we've made so far does demonstrate that we are making progress, having settled about $1.2 billion worth—over 70 claims—since the introduction of “Justice at Last”.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
What I'm hearing is there's an accelerated pace of claims. Maybe it's speculation, but is there a likelihood that we can actually come under that budget of $2.5 billion that was set aside, that there might be a supplemental estimate at some point that says we don't need as much money as we thought we did?
4:15 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The $2.5 billion was an estimate made some years ago based on what we knew was in the system. We are now closing in on that amount, when we look at the claims that are under negotiation. Certainly, there's a possibility that we will come under that, but I think it's a very low possibility. My prediction is we will be coming back to the government and actually seeking to replenish that reserve.
The contingent liabilities that are booked against the department's books are much larger than that amount. Of course, those include claims that have not yet been accepted, so some of them will not be accepted for negotiation. I suspect we will be coming back for more and to try to finally get to the bottom of resolving all these claims.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you.
How much time do I have, Mr. Chairman?
