Government Operations Committee on Dec. 1st, 2011

[Kelly Gillis]

There is not in these supplementary estimates. It is in our main estimates.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

It is in the main estimates.

Can you just maybe comment briefly on Bill C-11, then, which is going to have some impact on spending related to intellectual property related to copyright?

[Richard Dicerni]

Do you mean the new copyright bill?

There's nothing, I think, in the estimates until the bill is actually passed. I think a committee is going to be set up in the new year between various committees. We don't have anything yet. But I would note that copyright is one of our pillar pieces of legislation for the digital economy. If you want to evolve towards a more digital economy, it's very important to ensure that people know what their rights are in terms of both the creators and the users. That's why the copyright bill is an important statutory linchpin for our digital economy strategy.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Is that the time now?

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I'm afraid you've used up your complete five minutes, although you used them well. Thank you very much.

That actually concludes our second round of questioning, so we'll just say thank you to the deputy minister, Mr. Richard Dicerni, and Kelly Gillis and Simon Kennedy for being here. Thank you very much for a very useful and well-spent hour.

While the panels are changing and we welcome the Deputy Minister of Transport, I have an announcement I'd like to make to committee members.

Circumstances related to parliamentary procedure have made it such that our votes at the end of today, the votes regarding the supplementary estimates for Heritage, Privy Council, Public Works, and Treasury Board, are redundant, in that Monday has been declared the final supply day or opposition day. For these votes to have any effect, they have to take place three sitting days prior to the final opposition day, which was, in fact, yesterday. It's a little bit like the Department of Redundancy Department, in that we're studying something we can't vote on. But I think there's still merit in doing an analysis of the supplementary estimates.

These votes are deemed to have been accepted by Parliament.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Marc-Olivier Girard]

They are reported back without amendment.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

They are deemed to have been reported to Parliament without amendment. It would have happened whether we had these meetings or not, but I believe the exercise is useful as we examine the supplementary estimates so as to understand them better.

Are there any questions about the procedural change? I'm happy to explain it again.

We're good.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

It's unfortunate that because of such an announcement we cannot analyze and vote on the estimates in a more complete fashion.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Yes. The purpose of our exercise was to be able to study the estimates and report them back to the House of Commons. No one could have foreseen that Monday would be assigned as the last supply day of this session. That just happened an hour or so ago. So the exercise is useful, but it won't have the votes at the end that it normally would.

Our next panel of witnesses from the Department of Transport is with us. We are very pleased to welcome Deputy Minister Yaprak Baltacioglu.

Thank you for being here again, Yaprak. It's nice to see you again. I'm going to let you introduce your fellow panel members and make a brief presentation, and then we'll begin the questioning process.

[Yaprak Baltacioglu, Deputy Minister, Department of Transport]

Good afternoon and thank you, Mr. Chair.

It is a great pleasure to be here today.

I am accompanied by representatives of two departments. First of all, I will introduce those from the Department of Transport. I am accompanied by Anita Biguzs, Associate Deputy Minister, and André Morency, Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Management.

Now I would like to introduce the representatives of Infrastructure Canada. I have with me John Forster, Associate Deputy Minister, and Su Dazé, Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services. Ms. Dazé joined us only a month ago.

Mr. Chairman, we distributed our comments. I'm only going to touch upon a few paragraphs of our opening remarks. With your permission.... Do you not have our comments?

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I don't think we have anything circulated from your department.

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

Okay, maybe it was for the translators. My apologies.

We would like to use a tiny bit of our time to cover the green infrastructure fund, which we had left out of our comments. That might be of interest to some of your members.

I'll start with a few words on transport. One of our fundamental goals is to ensure a modern and efficient, safe and secure transportation system that will serve Canada's current needs and help drive prosperity. In order to achieve those goals, Transport Canada is requesting $76.2 million in net funding through these supplementary estimates. We also have our transportation-related crowns, and we are seeking $1.5 million for Marine Atlantic, $50 million for VIA Rail, and $23.1 million for the Jacques Cartier and Champlain Bridges Incorporated.

Regarding the supplementary estimates of Infrastructure Canada, they include adjustments of some $1.2 billion for voted expenditures and statutory expenditures. This brings our total funding to $6.1 billion for 2011 and 2012.

Please note that 80% of these requests will bring in $954 million from projects from last year under the economic action plan, for which an extension was granted until October 31, 2011.

The rest of the request consists of postponing funds from last year for projects granted using other funds. Infrastructure Canada promptly pays any construction costs.

This postponing of funds is necessary to meet the construction schedules of our provincial, territorial and municipal partners responsible for managing contracts and construction projects.

Now I will yield the floor to Mr. Foster, who will briefly discuss the Green Infrastructure Fund.

[John Forster, Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Minister and Mr. Chair.

I just want to take a couple of quick moments to provide a brief overview of the green infrastructure fund and to respond to a couple of questions raised earlier today.

First, an issue was raised about the pace of spending under the green infrastructure fund. It was announced in budget 2009 to provide $1 billion for infrastructure projects that improve the quality of the environment. Although announced as part of the economic action plan, the fund is very different from the other infrastructure stimulus programs, which were designed to be completed in one or two years. The green fund was designed to support complex, larger projects to be built over five years.

The fund has announced 17 projects for $617 million federally and the total of investment with partners is over $2 billion. All these projects are for provincial, territorial, or municipal public infrastructure, such as hydro and transmission lines in northern and remote areas; waste-water treatment plants, particularly along the Great Lakes; and solid-waste management projects in Quebec. Some of those projects are under way, but some have yet to begin.

Large, complex infrastructure projects do take time to get started. They must be designed and engineered, and they must go through environmental approvals, first nation consultations, requests for proposals, and contracts before construction can begin.

I'd like to offer one example: the Winnipeg wet weather treatment project was announced in November 2009 with a contribution of $11 million. Part way through the planning of the project, the province introduced new effluent regulations. As a result, the city is redesigning the project to meet the new provincial regulations, and they are now with the province for approval.

We haven't yet paid any claims on this project, but we did not withdraw or cancel our funding due to this delay. It is at times a fact of life for large infrastructure projects, but this is a very important project for the city and a very important project for Lake Winnipeg.

I would stress that we pay claims only for costs incurred as work progresses. We are working hard with our partners who are responsible for managing and contracting the projects to ensure they're completed in a timely manner and for improving financial forecasts of expenses.

The second issue raised today pertained to the reallocation of some of the funding from the program. To date, $170 million of the fund has been reallocated to other departments for four other government priorities. In addition, $45 million was reduced from the program as part of Infrastructure Canada's strategic review proposal announced in budget 2011.

These transfers were policy decisions of the government. They were approved by Treasury Board. The department identified these changes in the fund and in the program in its reports to Parliament.

I hope that explains the two issues regarding the green fund. We'll be happy to provide further detail and answer any questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, Mr. Forster. That's very useful.

We'll go to questioning with Mathieu Ravignat for the NDP.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank the witnesses for their presence and their presentations.

It will not be a surprise for you, but I will ask you a question regarding the Champlain Bridge. This should not surprise you since this is a very important question for the people from this region. I noted that, under the votes, Jacques Cartier and Champlain Bridges Inc. would receive additional funds of more than $23 million, increasing its budgetary appropriation to approximately $154 million, to cover its expenses related to the Honoré-Mercier and Champlain bridges in Montreal.

How would these funds solve the issue of renovating and rebuilding the Champlain Bridge?

[Anita Biguzs, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Transport]

Thank you very much for the question, Mr. Chair.

I can advise you that the funding included in these supplementary estimates for the Jacques Cartier Bridge and the Champlain Bridge is required essentially for repairs and deck replacement for the Honoré Mercier Bridge and the Champlain Bridge. This is part of a ten-year program to ensure the integrity and safety of the bridges.

The funds that are in these supplementary estimates have in fact been reprofiled from a previous year due to revised work plans and some delays in terms of contractor work. It took them longer to complete some of the work.

With regard to the first phase of the Honoré Mercier Bridge, I can certainly indicate that the work had been completed in the first part of the contract. The re-decking is continuing and will continue into the next year. This is part of the overall program to ensure the safety and integrity of the bridges. The intention is that this work will continue to ensure the integrity of the bridges.

Of course, the government and the Minister of Transport did announce in October the government's intention to build a new bridge to replace the Champlain Bridge. Work will take place, and there will certainly be consultation with all the appropriate stakeholders, and all the work required to actually be able to move forward with a new bridge will be done.

In the meantime, every effort and the resources are being put into this so that we can ensure the integrity and safety of the existing structures.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you.

Can the changes you described be explained by the lack of clarity regarding the relationship between the public funds and the private sector involved in the project?

[Anita Biguzs]

This is all federal funding that is being provided. Of course the Honoré Mercier Bridge also has a component, and funds are being provided by the provincial government, so as I said, this is being managed completely through work by the Jacques Cartier and Champlain Bridge Incorporated as part of their mandate and their responsibilities to ensure the maintenance and repairs of those bridges.

It's part of a government program. The government has invested significant funding to ensure the ongoing integrity and safety of the bridges, and those appropriations in terms of public moneys are there to support that work.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

My next question refers to votes 40b and 45b.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade would receive $97 million from Transport Canada, National Defence, and Public Works and Government Services as additional funding for its operating and capital expenditures.

Why was the National Capital Commission transferred to the portfolio of Foreign Affairs and International Trade?

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

This was a government decision.

They decided to change the location of the agency. I can't tell you why that change was made. I believe that was done right after the election when the new cabinet was established.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

You have about 30 seconds, please, Mathieu.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

I will move on to a general question regarding outsourcing.

We realized that some estimates referred to outsourcing. Have these amounts increased compared with other years?

Generally speaking, is the use of external consultants increasing in your departments?

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

I don't have the exact numbers in terms of contracting, but we will get it to the committee, Mr. Chair.

Our contracting practices depend on the workload, and also the expertise that is required by the department. In transport we always end up going outside with certain contracts. For example, certain kinds of economic analysis for monitoring grain movements for transportation—those things are often contracted out because expertise exists outside.

As the budget reductions come in, we are going to be looking at what we contract out, and the best use of public money. We're always very careful about that, but we'll give you the trend for the past few years.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

That would be very useful. Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

That's great. Thank you very much, Mathieu.

Mr. Jacques Gourde, for the Conservatives.