Government Operations Committee on Feb. 1st, 2012

[Gary Corbett]

I'm going to. You know, they brought us in at the operational level to tell them about issues that needed to be fixed, for example, that have to do with the transfer of employees. But had we started before that in looking strategically at how this was going to happen, we could have played a much more beneficial role in terms of the steps to take to get to where we want to be three years down the road.

If I'm asked a question about the rights of one employee from one agency going to Shared Services Canada, that's a kind of rubber-on-the-road issue. We're happy to provide advice for that, but those could have been anticipated long before in terms of moving forward together.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Is there any time for Kelly?

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Kelly has almost two minutes.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I echo the comments of my colleagues in thanking you for being here today. It was short notice and we're very glad to have this opportunity.

I want to follow up on my colleague's line of questioning in terms of opportunity. You observed that there still isn't a business plan, that you haven't seen a budget, and that SSC is still at the very early stages.

In terms of the observations my colleague just made, I would have to say it looks like there is still opportunity for dialogue and that SSC is very open to continuous dialogue with you in terms of where you go from here. Would you agree with that?

[Gary Corbett]

I would agree, and I would agree we are also open and that we're in the very early days of this. Our members are very concerned and worried and we want to work to make sure this is a success.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

I want to also follow up on a statement you made about the opportunities for mobility. What are those opportunities that you see for professional members due to increased mobility as a result of this?

[Gary Corbett]

Well, I mean you're talking about a much bigger organization that may have different levels of our IT members. In departments and agencies, some of these members get to a certain level and because of the size of the organization there is the inability to maybe transfer across departments. If you have one particular agency, then you would have mobility where people's career path could be better.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

That concludes your time. Thank you very much, Kelly.

For our last round we are going to have an NDP round, with Ève Péclet sharing her time with Denis Blanchette.

[Ève Péclet, NDP, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also thank the witnesses for being here today.

We know that the current report anticipates savings between $45 million and $293 million annually. I am not sure if you can answer this, but do you think those savings are really going to happen? After all, those are savings of 6% to 36%. That is quite a range. Do you have any other forecasts?

[Michel Rodrigue]

Perhaps I can clarify that a little. When he announced the project, Mr. Clement clearly indicated that he was projecting savings of $100 to $200 million per year, which he was going to put towards paying down the deficit.

In order to do that, you have to modify and unify complex systems. You have to set up new data centres. You have to combine services. You have to come up with new email systems. That is not going to be done in the time in which the savings are needed.

If we look at private sector examples, I am sure that the Royal Bank of Canada set up a solid business plan and a solid human resources plan before doing anything similar. We firmly believe that it is important to share information so that we can contribute to a dialogue that will result in savings being found.

So I think that now is a good time to ask if it is realistic to be thinking about making specific savings without solid data.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Shared Services Canada is a new organization. We understand that things are up in the air and that there is a lot of uncertainty. The start may have been a bit rough, but the positive thing is that, in spite of that, your members think that it is a good idea. But perhaps there is some disagreement about the way to get it going.

Rather than waiting until Shared Service Canada consults you, how would you feel about being proactive and making some proposals? Would you be ready to be part of an initiative like that and make proposals rather than just reacting to them?

[Gary Corbett]

That's a very good question. I don't think it's our role to propose a plan, although we are happy to be involved in and consult on issues that they may not consider. As bargaining agents, we hear the pulse of our membership. We know what they want. We know the rules and regulations with respect to transfer of positions. So we bring that advice to the table. We also know our membership, so if we are asked in advance about human resources plans, we can provide input.

If we have none of that, then we're called in after the fact, and a lot of times we're just cleaning up a bit of a mess that's just started.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Actually, if I expressed myself that way, it was because I see an opportunity to have your expertise valued, to show how valuable the employees are and, perhaps, to get a better handle on real sources of savings.

Often, ideas about saving go off on dreamy theoretical balloon rides and then crash. Personally, that's what I am most afraid of. For the taxpayers' sake, I don't want us to crash.

If you were able to show Shared Services Canada what your members are capable of and what they can do with realistic goals, you might perhaps force Shared Services Canada into setting some decent priorities and steering a course that is more realistic for everyone concerned.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

You have about 30 seconds.

[Gary Corbett]

That is our desire. That is our wish. We want to be part of the decision. Remember, we are also connected with labour organizations in other countries that have gone through this experience. They want the best for their countries, and there is nothing wrong with transferring that knowledge between labour organizations into the best practices here in this country to achieve what we all want, which is a better public service. These people have expertise to be used.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, Mr. Blanchette. That concludes your time.

Thank you to our witnesses from the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada, Mr. Corbett, Mr. Rodrigue, and Mr. Campbell. Again, thank you for being here on such short notice. This is an excellent start to our study on this project, and we do appreciate the effort you made.

You can hear the bells ringing, and by the rules of the committee we have to adjourn now and go to vote.

Thank you very much for being here.

The meeting is adjourned.