Government Operations Committee on June 20th, 2011

[Michelle d'Auray]

Employees have the option to avail themselves of the full amount or a partial amount, and they have to make some indication, depending on where they are in the collective bargaining agreement, to give an indication to departments. I think the first decision is due July 1 or thereabouts. So the payout would be, depending on what the choice is, the full amount or half of the amount. We can't predict how people will make those decisions, but we have to be able to provision, and therefore extend the funds. We estimate that a fairly significant number will wish to draw the full amount or at least a fairly significant part of it in this fiscal year.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Is this benefit available to non-union members also?

[Michelle d'Auray]

That's correct.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

MPs don't pay EI, don't forget. When you get fired, you won't be collecting.

So we're estimating how much will be coming through. Any new employee will not qualify for this “I'm leaving so give me the severance package” program that has been in place in the past.

[Michelle d'Auray]

That's correct. That is the nature of the agreement we made.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

And that will apply to unions and non-union staff.

[Michelle d'Auray]

That's correct. It is an issue of us no longer being able to accumulate. So it is frozen in time as of the date of the agreements. Not all employees who are represented or bargained for have achieved a collective agreement, but for those who have and for those who are non-represented, these provisions apply.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Those are my questions at this time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

You were just about out of time anyway. That's perfect.

Nycole Turmel.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Firstly, do you know the percentage of casual employees in the public service? Secondly, what is the percentage of employees hired through employment agencies? I am not necessarily talking about the number of employees. Although, in fact, I would also like to know how many people are involved, because I was unable to find those figures. They must be in the main estimates, but I would like to have more information on that.

[Michelle d'Auray]

Thank you.

I don't know if I have the data with me to answer your question regarding the employees who are neither indeterminate nor term employees, as we call them.

As for temporary services, normally we report the amounts concerned in the Public Accounts of Canada, at the end of the year, when expenses have been incurred; these people are not considered public service employees. They are hired as needed. And so they do not have an employer-employee relationship with the public service.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

You do not have that information right now, but could you provide us later with the percentage of so-called term employees in the public service?

[Michelle d'Auray]

Yes, we can provide you with that information.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I know that it is in the reports, but I would also like to know the amount allocated to employment agencies.

[Michelle d'Auray]

If I may, Mr. Chair, I think that this will only be available when the Public Accounts of Canada become available, that is to say in the fall.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Could we have an example from last year's accounts?

[Michelle d'Auray]

We can provide you with some examples taken from the 2010 Public Accounts.

[Nycole Turmel, NDP, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I would appreciate that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

That's very helpful. Thank you.

There are still two and a half minutes left if the NDP wishes to use them.

Alexandre.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Yes, please.

I would like to ask a question on a topic I know has already been raised. I think our colleague, Mr. Wallace, referred to this briefly earlier.

Regarding the main estimates, in his report, the Parliamentary Budget Officer pointed out that the greatest percentage increase in your department was for the Treasury Board Secretariat, for employee benefits. There was a 217% increase. I believe this is for a reserve fund that is being constituted in order to be able to pay out entitlements on cessation of service or employment.

The main estimates show that there is a $100-million increase in vote 30 related to compensation. That is not a petty sum. The increase is mostly due to an increase in the number of separation payments and other benefits in connection with the departure or retirement of public servants.

So this has been announced. We see that there will be massive layoffs, and attrition. There are going to be cuts in the public service. In light of these two elements combined, i.e. the 217% increase in the Treasury Board Secretariat budget and this increase of $100 million, can we determine how many full-time employees will be receiving separation pay?

[Michelle d'Auray]

Vote 30 covers not only separation payments, but also maternity leave and other statutory payouts. We noted an increase. There are two factors at play here in the public service.

Firstly, people are reaching retirement age and can thus retire without penalties. And so they are leaving the public service and when they do, they receive severance pay.

Secondly, approximately 15,000 people join the public service in any given year. These employees are young and have children. So the increase is equally due to benefits related to the care of children—maternity and paternity leave—and to departures and retirements.

The $100 million increase was requested because these two phenomena are occurring at the same time. In the course of the past seven years, we saw total increases of approximately 19% in disbursements from this fund, payouts that are due equally to retirements and statutory leave.

It is quite difficult because we reimburse the departments once the funds are requested. We are not necessarily in a position to predict, on a yearly basis, what the requirements will be from one or the other quarter. However, this is what we have seen over the past seven years.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

That's very helpful.

Just before we go to Kelly, I have a supplementary to Alexandre's question. What is the maternity leave top-up for the public service? I might be able to ask Nycole that as well. Do we top it up to 95% of your ordinary wage?

[Michelle d'Auray]

Mr. Chair, I think I'd have to get back to you on the specifics of that.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Okay. I was just curious.

Kelly Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

As always when you go towards the end of a session and ask questions, many of the questions that you had in mind have been asked.

I want to follow up on something that my colleague Mr. Wallace asked. He was asking you about the new central vote that was created for capital budget carry-forward. More specifically, he was asking how you ensure that isn't just being carried forward and then somehow being brought back into an operating budget. I recognize that you've said it's more of a one-way valve, that once it's moved there, it stays there for the purpose for which it was allocated.

I'm wondering what happens when we're responding to a natural disaster, whether here at home or abroad, or when our armed forces are called in to move in and help out as a result of our partnership with NATO. How do departments go about accessing funds for that or ensuring that they can move forward with some of the things of this nature that we're called to do ?