Government Operations Committee on June 6th, 2012

[Pierre-Marc Mongeau]

Thank you for your question.

We try to find accommodations that meet the Senate's and the House of Commons' requirements. We assess what our needs will be over a five-year period and we look for accommodations that are in line with that assessment. Most of the leases we sign are long term. It's a lot easier for us to simply pay rent for 5 or 10 years, rather than buying a building outright and maintaining it.

We do carry out cost analyses. That enables us to have a certain number of accommodations leased over the medium term, but we are also constructing some buildings to house parliamentarians. The buildings at both 180 Wellington and La Promenade will be used for parliamentarians; those are our buildings that we renovated.

We are using our leased buildings as a complement to the buildings we already own and are in the process of renovating.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Your report contains a comment about the Auditor General. Unfortunately, in 2010, she noted that the “governance framework in place” had resulted in “delays in making decisions and implementing [renovation] projects, and contribute[d] to increasing project costs and risks.” You say in your report that she praised you, that she approved of what you were doing, but that wasn't really what she said. She quite clearly indicated the opposite.

What have you done to rectify the situation she described as unacceptable? That situation is largely the reason you are here today asking for supplementary funding and not going through the usual estimates. Obviously, you had neither the time nor the control.

[Pierre-Marc Mongeau]

The main issue with respect to difficult management and the consensus had to do with the allocation of governance responsibilities among the various partners involved. It did not have to do with PWGSC's work.

The Auditor General said in her report that our project management practices were sound and she commended our ability to perform historical analyses and control costs. She also talked about our relationship with clients. So in the project management section, she described PWGSC's practices as sound.

Most of what you are referring to has to do with the division of the governance mandate between the various partners, and that is an entirely different issue.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you.

I'm sorry, Alain, you're well over time.

Perhaps I could add one thing, though, in between the speakers. It was not only Sheila Fraser, the previous Auditor General, but the previous Auditor General before her, Denis Desautels, and the Speaker of the House of Commons and the Speaker of the Senate, who have all said there are too many cooks in the kitchen. We're spoiling the soup because everybody is tampering with it. That's why everything takes so long and costs so much to do on Parliament Hill.

I think that's the question Alain was getting at, not criticizing Public Works for doing what they can within the parameters of the existing system, but having Public Works, Heritage, the National Capital Commission, everybody and their grandmother, involved in a simple renovation takes ten times as long and costs ten times as much.

I assume that's what my colleague was getting at. That's simply an editorial comment.

Jean-François Larose.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for the Shared Services Canada officials.

Good afternoon, and thank you for being here. For the benefit of all those listening to our proceedings, if I understood correctly, your mandate stems from the difficulty the different departments have long had in keeping up their systems. They were deteriorating and getting old, and suddenly there was this realization that something had to be done to fix this disastrous situation. Everyone agrees on that.

You've been around for about a year, is that right?

[Gina Rallis]

No. We are in our first fiscal year, but our organization was actually established in two phases. The first was rolled out on August 4. Then, the biggest part of our organization came into being on November 15.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

You handle every single federal department?

[Gina Rallis]

Thank you for the question.

On August 4, the government announced the creation of Shared Services Canada and transferred a portion of PWGSC's staff over to the agency. On November 15, the infrastructure, email systems, data centres and networks of some 40 departments were transferred over.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

So you don't handle everything for all of them, just some things. Is that right?

[Gina Rallis]

That is correct.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Do you expect your service to be around temporarily or permanently, given what you're dealing with and the many problems that need to be resolved?

[Benoît Long]

Permanently.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

If I understood correctly, some departments are still using their current budgets to maintain and service their existing systems. You don't deal with those, you don't do absolutely everything, just a portion.

[Benoît Long]

The services that come under the department's mandate are email, data centres and networks. Anything to do with software and work tables is still the responsibility of the departments.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you for your answers.

The total estimates to date are $1.326 billion. That doesn't even cover a full year. In supplementary estimates (A)—and we haven't even gotten to supplementary estimates (B) or (C) yet—you are asking for an additional $10 million.

As we speak, where does your total estimate for the full year stand, as far as supplementary estimates (B) and (C) go?

[Gina Rallis]

I would just like to start by clarifying that when we appeared to ask for approval for the main estimates, the purpose was to present our estimates under the departmental transfers of $1.4 billion.

Now what you have in front of you is really a request for an additional $32 million. The new funding is actually just $10 million, whereas the other $22 million still stems from departmental adjustments. The department's total estimates are approximately $1.5 billion, so it can fulfill its mandate.

In terms of supplementary estimates (B) and (C), as my colleague Mr. Matthews already mentioned, it also depends on any new programs that may be approved by Treasury Board.

[Jean-François Larose, NDP, Repentigny, QC]

I am not sure whether you understand what is happening right now, but most programs and departments are dealing with cutbacks. Services are being cut, and you are asking for more money. I still don't see any results coming in the near future. So, in my view, it is crucial that you fulfill your mandate as quickly as possible.

Another issue we need to look at here is the strategic scope, strategic planning and coordination. We need to discuss that because I don't see much happening right now in that regard.

The figures are so high. I thought the jets were a problem, but now I see this and I am worried. It's only natural, this is taxpayer money.

Given the cost to date, and my questions about your being able to fulfill your mandate and the duration of your organization, you will appreciate that I am eager to see some results.

[Gina Rallis]

Thank you for your question.

I completely understand your concerns. Once again, I want to clarify that we are not asking for new funding. Each department used to administer its own email system, data centre and network. Shared Services Canada's estimates, which you have in front of you, actually reflect those departmental budgets being transferred to our organization. The only new funding in that document is the $10 million for cybersecurity, which was approved for four departments.

As regards priorities and key deliverables, we developed our plans and priorities; that report was published in May 2012. We will have to return to present those results.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I'm afraid you're way over time, Jean-François, to be fair.

Is there anyone interested in asking questions on the Conservative side?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I'm going to wrap it up for today, my friend.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

We still have time left in the scheduled meeting. What about the Liberal Party?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I don't want to ask any more questions.

Since Treasury Board didn't have all the answers in detail for AECL, would it be possible for you or the clerk to write a letter to them asking for a written explanation of the uses for their emergency funding?

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I don't think it's necessary for us to write a letter. I think you could put that question to them and have them write the letter to us with the answer, John. We have representatives here.

You're making the point as a motion, I suppose, that you would like a more detailed written response to the question regarding AECL. Is that satisfactory?

Can the Treasury Board Secretariat commit to that?

Very good. Thank you.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Treasury Board said we had to go to AECL if we wanted that information.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I see.