Government Operations Committee on Nov. 27th, 2012

[Wilma Vreeswijk]

Much like the other secretariats within the Privy Council Office, we work very closely with other central agencies to assess the initiatives that are coming forward and to provide advice on them. We work with agencies such as Public Works and Government Services or Shared Services Canada, because they have a whole-of-government focus.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Very good.

[Wilma Vreeswijk]

We do work with them quite closely. The primary focus is on whole-of-government transformation, and this work is just getting started.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

That's it. Thank you very much.

Our next speaker is Costas Menegakis from the Conservative Party.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and my thanks to our witnesses for appearing before us today.

I'd like to channel my questions. My first question deals with the perimeter security and economic competitiveness action plan and how it relates to our communication with the U.S. and the White House. Is PCO the lead vehicle in communicating our progress with respect to the security agreement with the U.S.?

[Michelle Doucet]

Insofar as it pertains to the implementation of the action plan announced on December 7, 2011, PCO has the lead in government, but it works very closely with its security and border counterparts across government, and they have a critical role. For instance, Mr. Moloney, who is the deputy minister in charge of the initiative at PCO, chairs a deputy ministers' committee within the government, and the membership is what you would expect for the security and border departments in the Government of Canada. They also deal with their counterparts on the American side.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Does that communication include progress with specific items in the security agreement, such as the electronic travel authorization, biometrics, that type of thing?

[Michelle Doucet]

I'm afraid I don't have that level of detail with me here today, but if the committee would like, I'd be pleased to provide it.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

That would be useful. You could provide it to the clerk.

Does the U.S. have a reciprocal group that gives us information with respect to what they're doing?

[Michelle Doucet]

Yes, they do. There are two counterparts on the American side. With respect to the RCC component of the work, their counterpart is the U.S. Office of Management and Budget, which is where the U.S. side of the RCC is housed. The border action plan is done, as I understand it, directly out of the White House.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

I'll flip to PCO's role in the coordination throughout the government of the economic action plan. A lot of the money you're asking for has gone towards the building of the new website, particularly the evergreen initiative, to make sure it goes out.

How are you communicating that to the other departments within the government?

[Ian McCowan, Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Communications and Consultations, Privy Council Office]

The website is the focus of the supplementary (B) request, and it represents an effort on the part of PCO to coordinate government communications on the initiatives related to the economic action plan. To do that, we need a small team to knit together information on more than 275 programs, services, and initiatives. Almost 40 government departments and agencies are involved in that effort, and this allows us to communicate in the most consistent and effective way possible and get maximum value on the investment.

The site allows us to provide one-stop shopping for important information on things like apprenticeship grants and hiring credits for small businesses. There's a blog. I think the most recent blog discusses how to save money on your energy bill over the holiday season, reinforcing energy efficiency themes.

The short answer to your question is that it's our best effort to provide coordinated, efficient, and effective communications for the many initiatives related to the economic action plan.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Excellent. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you, Costas.

Our next questioner is John McCallum from the Liberal Party.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

Welcome to you all.

One of the things I've been trying to do with different departments that have come before us is to find out the true facts on the budget cuts that have come out of Budget 2012. In the case of PCO, I'll just quote what you say:

PCO will achieve Budget 2012 savings of $9.2M by fiscal year 2014-2015 through efficiency measures that align resources to its core mandate; scaling back where the need is reduced; transforming how it works internally and by consolidating and streamlining. With these changes, PCO will focus on supporting management excellence and accountability across government.

With all due respect, that's sort of gobbledygook. That doesn't tell us anything at all. So I guess my question to you is how, in concrete terms, are you achieving the $9.2 million of savings? What jobs are lost, and what are you not doing that you used to do? Do you have some answer that goes beyond the words that I just read?

[Michelle Doucet]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

One of the important things to understand about the Privy Council Office is that we're all people. We don't have any programs. We have three main roles: to provide advice to the Prime Minister, to support cabinet and cabinet committees, and to support the clerk in his role as the head of the public service. So we're not, as part of our planned savings, cutting programs, because we don't have any programs to cut. We're seeking efficiencies, and wherever possible we're trying to do that without an impact on people, though that is unavoidable.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

But how can you do it without an impact on people when all you have is people?

[Michelle Doucet]

We can't. So there has been an impact on people, and as a result we've had to invoke the workforce adjustment policy and directive. I believe I advised the committee that we had done that when I appeared before you on April 30 on our main estimates. We'd be pleased to give you further details on that today if you're interested in that.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I'm interested in...I think you call it program activities and subactivities. I'm interested in knowing what you've actually done, because those words that I read don't really tell us anything. How many people have lost their jobs, or what areas have you cut back in?

[Michelle Doucet]

I certainly can speak to your question on program subactivities. The question about how many people have lost their jobs has a bit of a separate answer. Perhaps I'll start with the subactivity question first.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Okay.

[Michelle Doucet]

As you may know, the Privy Council Office published its planned savings under Budget 2012 by its five program activities on our website recently.

Because we're a smaller department, we have fewer subactivities than other departments to support the core mandate. It's actually easier for us than for some other departments to break that down along the subactivity level. But I can do that. Let me take you through that for over the next three years.

We have five subactivities. The first one, the Prime Minister's and portfolio ministers' support and advice, is the largest category; it has five subactivities. The first one is issues, policy, machinery, and appointments. This year, in 2012, we will save $164,000. Next year that ramps up to $461,000, and then in 2014-15 and thereafter it's $923,000.

The second subactivity is international affairs and national security. This year we will save $246,000. Next year that will ramp up to $632,000, and then in 2014-15 and thereafter it's $1.069 million.

In intergovernmental affairs we are not booking any savings for this year; they start next year. That's $326,000, and then it ramps up for the third year and thereafter at $977,000.

The fourth subactivity in this category is legislation, parliamentary issues, and democratic reform. There are no savings booked for this year, but they begin in the next fiscal year at $54,000 and ramp up to $162,000 ongoing.

The fifth subactivity is the Prime Minister's and portfolio ministers' offices. No savings are booked for this year or for the next fiscal year. They begin in 2014-15 and ongoing at $416,000.

Let me turn next to the second activity level, which is cabinet and cabinet committees' advice and support. That has two subactivity levels. The first is operation of cabinet committees. This year we've booked $86,000, and it ramps up significantly next year to $845,000, and then finishing out at $911,000 ongoing.

For PCO's work and integration across the federal government, which is the second subactivity in this category, this year we will save $103,000, and next year we will save $309,000. Then in 2014-15 it will be $744,000 ongoing.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to interrupt you. We are well over the time allocated to Mr. McCallum's questions.

We will now move on to the Conservatives and Mr. Ron Cannan.

If we could, we'll keep the questions and answers within the five minutes. As Mr. Wallace said, we have to save some time at the end of the meeting to actually vote on the questions put to the committee regarding the estimates.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

I'll be very quick.

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and thanks to our witnesses.

Just to clarify, did you say the PCO had no programs?

[Michelle Doucet]

That's correct.