Government Operations Committee on March 21st, 2013

[Bernie Gaudet]

Cindy actually may be able to help out on this one in terms of recalling the presentation that PWGSC provided at our last federal-provincial-territorial meeting, but I do understand they have a similar initiative. My understanding was that for both of us, the interest is in making sure that we have resources available to accommodate this strategy.

We pay for the interior retrofit, the tenant improvements, by shedding the space. For the spaces that we would otherwise have occupied, those lease costs are put into the tenant improvements in order to redesign the space, accommodating more people. That's how we essentially resource it.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Braid]

Thank you.

I want to try to exercise some Canadian fairness here and present a question to our friends from Manitoba.

Through your presentations you seemed to indicate that some of your programs are perhaps new and emerging. With respect to energy efficiency targets or greenhouse gas emission targets within Manitoba government buildings, do you have specific targets to achieve? I missed whether they were specific targets that you've set and were working towards.

[Cindy Choy]

We've set an energy target for new buildings, so any new government building would be required to hit an energy efficiency target that was 33% better than the model-compared building under the 1997 energy code. Certainly, we will be looking at updating that as the new energy code comes forward.

Specifically, relative to energy, the requirements under the green building policy would apply to, as I said, major renovation—that's a complete gut of a building—and new construction. Those are the targets we've set thus far.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Braid]

Is this not existing buildings currently?

[Cindy Choy]

It's not existing buildings as yet, no.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Braid]

Sorry, were you going to conclude with a thought there?

[Cindy Choy]

I seem to have lost it.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Braid]

I apologize for the interruption.

My time is now up.

Madam Duncan is our next questioner.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to go back to my second question that I asked originally and we ran out of time to answer.

You'll notice that we're asking a lot of questions about what efforts your two jurisdictions are doing to retrofit existing buildings, because, similar to the federal, it sounds like most of the provinces' space is leased.

You alluded to it a bit, but not really clearly. I'd like to hear how each of you actually are moving forward on reducing energy use in leased buildings. I'm presuming, like most governments, most of your leases are long-term leases. If you could, please speak to that one way or another, and how you're managing to open up those leases. Are you offering to pay for part of the retrofit, or are you putting any attention to that at all? It sounds as if in Manitoba that's not a big priority right now, but maybe it is in B.C.?

[Bernie Gaudet]

Sure, I can speak to that.

Our leases are typically five-year leases for our commercial portfolio. As I mentioned, about 80% of our commercial portfolio is leased. To advance the energy efficiency initiatives, the building operations teams that are present in the buildings will identify infrastructure updates that will support energy efficiency, and we'll enter that information into a rolling spreadsheet that's created through the year under what's called the routine capital program. It's the same routine capital program that's used to identify when roofs need to be replaced for our own facilities, etc. It doesn't matter if it's an owned building or a leased building; that's identified when it's entered onto that database. But if there's an energy efficiency opportunity in a lease base, it's incorporated into that list. The information is then provided to our lease services department, who consider the information when they're renegotiating the lease for that space every five years.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

My question is if they're 20- or 30-year leases, how quickly can you actually require the changes?

[Bernie Gaudet]

They're five-year leases.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Only five years.

[Bernie Gaudet]

Typically five-year leases, and there are very few, a handful at the most, that are beyond that. Our head office for our ministry, for example, is a 10-year lease. But typically we have five-year leases to maintain sort of a nimble portfolio perspective on our space requirements. The programming that's offered to citizens in the province, similar probably to other jurisdictions, changes quite quickly, so our ministry—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

When you renegotiate—

[Bernie Gaudet]

—when lease space is obtained—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but I need a shorter answer. I'm trying to get at when you renegotiate, how do you get the owner of the building to invest in those retrofits? Do you offer to cost-share, or do you simply say, “We're not going to lease your building unless you retrofit”? How do you go about doing that to try to implement those measures in those leased buildings?

[Bernie Gaudet]

If it's a measure that can be repaid, if the return on investment is within that term, we will probably pay for that retrofit. If it goes beyond the lease term, then the negotiation will happen between the landowner and the lease negotiator to share the cost.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Interesting.

Does Manitoba want to comment on that at all?

[Cindy Choy]

Well, we're in a different situation. We own most of our portfolio. We have a very small commercial portfolio, and our leases are 20 to 30 years, so it's a totally different scenario. Our focus is on the owner portfolio right now.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Are there a few minutes left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

A half-minute is left.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Okay.

I would appreciate, Ms. Choy, if you could, then, give me a little bit more information about the digital controls, and whether you are trying to negotiate putting in at least some of that kind of mechanism into your long-term leased buildings.

I understand that you're very interested in the NRCan Portfolio Manager program. Are you able to implement that into some of the areas that you lease as well, so that you can track and report on energy use?

[Susanne Parent]

I'll talk about the digital controls, and it's convenient that Manitoba Hydro is here too. They, in partnership with a lot of landowners in Manitoba, and in Winnipeg specifically, would be aggressively going after the commercial building sector on their own as a crown, because it benefits the whole province in terms of energy efficiency. Their utilities are owned by the people of Manitoba.

As to our implementing or encouraging DDC use and water efficiency initiatives in commercial buildings, at this point that is encouraged. But the model is there. As part of going into leased buildings, among the things we require as part of our schedules is accessibility, and renovations and other tenant improvements are required in order for a landlord to qualify.

So if you're looking for an opportunity, it's there. It's up to the jurisdiction to decide whether they want to implement it or not.

I'll turn it over to Cindy to answer the second part of your question.

Do we have time?

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Please make it very quick. We're well over time.