Government Operations Committee on May 21st, 2013

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much. That's very helpful.

I have just one last quick question. In 2009 you had posted a request for proposals to seek competitive bids for relocation services, and it was quoted as being on an “as is, when requested” basis.

Can you clarify what that means for the committee?

[Normand Masse]

Yes. Those contracts obviously depend on the number of people being moved. The idea is that this contract is on an “as and when requested” basis. It is a request for proposal. There was a minimum engaged or committed value for that contract, but then it depends on the number of moves the company is going to supervise. This is why it was put out like that, as opposed to being a firm requirement for x number per year, etc.

So it is only the format, because of the nature of the requirement.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much for the clarification.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

That's good, Ron. Thank you very much. Your time has concluded.

Next, then, we will have Mathieu Ravignat.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

First, thank you both for being here.

Second, as you know, Canadians are worried about this, and they're worried because there seems to have been some jerry-rigging of this process. I don't want to make any accusations necessarily, but there is obviously a perception that there has been some jerry-rigging.

Even in 2009, Monsieur Robitaille, when you gave us assurances that certain steps were put in place to ensure fairness, the contract was awarded to the same company. Now we know that the minister at the time, Paradis—and I put it lightly—had some issues with ethics. There was a person attached to this program who was involved with the CIBC, which was the financial institution dealing with the particular company that received it.

So it's fine to solve it on the ground and talk about changes to criteria and process, but what about at the highest levels? What has been done at the highest levels—and I'm talking about the minister's office and the deputy minister's office—to ensure that this kind of influence can't continue?

[Pablo Sobrino]

I'll speak to that in a more general answer. I can't comment on those particular aspects.

The way we ensure integrity in the procurement process is very much around using process. The changes that we've put into the procurement system over the last three or four years have been about openness and transparency. The idea is to have independent third parties to document our governance decisions so they're publicly visible; to bring in a stated process that we follow with a timeline that is not compressed—in other words to have the adequate period of time for people to provide input; and to engage industry to have the procurement strategy shaped by industry, as opposed to our driving the procurement strategy.

That's a fair change. What it does is slow down the process, but it gives you more certainty that the industry recognizes that the procurement strategy is one into which they have provided input. With the use of the independent third parties that we bring in, it gives that assessment and that assurance.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Right, and that's fine. I understand that you can't comment on the high-level issues.

Let's talk about process, then. Is there a fairness monitor in place right now for this contract?

[Pablo Sobrino]

Fairness, no, we do not have one yet in place. The procurement is about to begin. We will bring a fairness monitor in off our standing offers for fairness monitors.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Who has the final say as to who that fairness monitor will be?

[Pablo Sobrino]

The assistant deputy minister of the departmental oversight branch.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Does the minister have a role to play?

[Pablo Sobrino]

No. The minister doesn't play a role.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Okay.

I'm going to go on in French if...?

[Pablo Sobrino]

Yes, absolutely.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

That's just to let you know, and also to let our good interpreters know that I'm changing languages.

What is usually the average timeframe for such a bidding process? That's my first question.

As for the integrated relocation contract, do you think it's fair and equitable to launch an open bidding process less than six months before the contract expires?

[Pablo Sobrino]

No. We think that we must proceed more quickly and launch that open process—which I just talked about—at least 18 months before the expiry, so that we can have enough time to award the contract. The Treasury Board also has to approve the awarding of a contract. Therefore, we have to begin the process with the Treasury Board at least 18 months before the expiry, so that they can make a decision.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

So I assume that the timeframe for this contract will be much longer than it has been in the past.

[Pablo Sobrino]

We need time to establish that kind of engagement with industry. We cannot do that with a very tight deadline.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Okay.

Do you know whether the new contract will contain the same clauses, including the two option years?

[Pablo Sobrino]

I don't know. That discussion is part of the procurement strategy. The decision has not yet been made.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Okay.

Have you made a decision about potentially extending the contract?

[Pablo Sobrino]

Are you talking about the possibility of extending the current contract?

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

I am talking about the current contract or any future contracts.

[Pablo Sobrino]

The current contract will have to be extended by a year to ensure transparent and equitable procurement going forward.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Okay.

Do I have any time left?