Government Operations Committee on Feb. 13th, 2014

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I think the minister is willing to come.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

We have received information from the minister. He does not seem to be available on either Tuesday or Thursday morning, when we usually meet. My understanding is that his cabinet practically meets every week. That is why he suggested that the meeting take place outside our regular time slot. We will also have to see what is going to happen with one of the two motions.

I actually meant to say the President of the Treasury Board, not the minister.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Chair, one of the challenges of changing the committee hours is that some of the members of our committee have multiple committees, so it does create a domino effect. It is very difficult to find coverage if you change that. Did Minister Finley indicate she was unavailable Tuesday or Thursday morning?

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

I said the minister, but I was actually referring to the President of the Treasury Board.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Okay. So can we move then to have Public Works and Government Services Canada on Tuesday, March 4, at our usual time?

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Yes, that will depend on the witnesses' availability. We will try to schedule it then.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Before you go any further, Mr. Chair, if I could interrupt you, one of our own recommendations from our previous study of doing a better analysis of the estimates is that we have the plans and priorities dealt with now. In our view, that should be prior to the estimates. We want to deal with the plans and priorities knowing what they are, and then seeing if the estimates match the proposed plans and priorities for spending for the upcoming fiscal year.

I think we're putting the cart before the horse and ignoring our own analysis of doing a better job of following the money. You plan and you set priorities. Then you put the dollar figure to those priorities. Then you put them in a budget. Then you spend the money. Then you study it at public accounts. That was the path we charted out and we wanted to see. We were happy to see the budget come in earlier this year because that frankly helps, I think, with that timeframe.

Do we expect the plans and priorities to accompany the estimates, or to be simultaneous with them, or what?

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

I don't know , but I can try to find out.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I think the practice now is that the RPPs are tabled at the same time as the main estimates in the same week, so I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be. As we discussed in that study we did in 2012, it's ideal if you can actually look at the main estimates in the context of the report on plans and priorities. I think the invitation should be to explain and to explore not just the main estimates but also the RPPs.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

So you want to have only one meeting for both the main estimates and the report on plans and priorities, and you want it on Tuesday, March 4.

Mr. Martin, the floor is yours.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

If I may, that's what I was getting at, that it's not very much time to deal with the plans and priorities and the main estimates. You're lucky to get one hour with the minister. Perhaps a two-hour meeting with the bureaucrats first regarding plans and priorities.... Really, it's the minister who should be talking about plans and priorities.

More and more we've realized that's where the meat and potatoes lie. The estimates are a pile of data, a lot of numbers. Plans and priorities explain in relatively plain language what we hope to achieve by spending this $6 billion this year: here is the plan, here is the reason we're spending it this way, and here is the hopeful outcome of that spending.

In the thorough examination we did in the last session that's the conclusion we came to, that if we want to really assess and understand what the proposal is all about, it comes in the RPPs.

I don't think one hour on March 4 is enough.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I'm sorry, may I interject?

What we're proposing is a two-hour meeting just dedicated to Public Works on the main estimates, plus the report on plans and priorities on March 4.

If I may, Mr. Chair, on March 6 we'd like a full two hours with Treasury Board for a similar investigation of the main estimates as well as the report on plans and priorities.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

So you are talking about one meeting on March 4 with Public Works officials and another meeting on March 6 with Treasury Board officials to discuss the main estimates and the report on plans and priorities.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to propose one hour with officials from the Privy Council Office and one hour with officials from Shared Services Canada to discuss the main estimates at a meeting held on March 25.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

As a result, we can add a meeting on March 25 with officials from the Privy Council Office and Shared Services Canada. That will be after the two weeks of parliamentary recess. The meeting will be on the main estimates and the report on plans and priorities.

Go ahead, Mr. Byrne.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Mr. Chair, I want to introduce another topic because we're filling up the calendar pretty fast. I'm okay with that, but when you have an opportunity to get to the next issue.... We'll resolve this, and if it's okay, could you come back to me?

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Of course, we are currently scheduling future committee business, so I am open to suggestions for any future studies that may be added to the agenda until June. That means planning a number of meetings in the meantime. We are actually up to March 25 in scheduling meetings.

On March 6, I think we wanted to invite the President of the Treasury Board and his officials.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I would like to mention something, Mr. Chair.

We haven't examined the motions, but I just want to mention that the President of the Treasury Board has offered to come in to talk about the study on open data also.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

We are aware of that, but, as long as there is no motion to start a study, we cannot call on any witnesses. I am ready to receive motions on study proposals.

Mr. Byrne, go ahead.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Mr. Chair, I'll introduce the topic.

On February 10, not long ago, the Auditor General wrote to you and copied vice-chairs to highlight two chapters of the fall 2013 report of the Auditor General, as tabled in the House of Commons. He noted that this committee may have interest in those two chapters.

One of those chapters is of particular interest to me and I think maybe to other committee members, which is, Chapter 2, “Access to Online Services”. It would be valuable, given the Auditor General himself has recognized that our committee may have an interest in this, to ask the Auditor General to come forward, to appear before us to discuss chapter 2, “Access to Online Services”.

I would propose that we would use the full two hours. One hour would be for the Auditor General and the second hour would be for representatives from Human Resources and Skills Development Canada, the Canada Revenue Agency, Veterans Affairs Canada, and Industry Canada, which are the four departments the Auditor General's team reviewed during the course of their audit, and for the production of chapter 2.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you for that proposal.

Is the committee open to holding that meeting? Mr. Byrne, could you remind me of the date you suggested?

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

I don't have a particular date in mind, but if there is a date that you would suggest or the clerk might recommend, obviously sooner rather than later would always be preferred.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Okay. I will check with the committee.

Go ahead, Mr. Trottier.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Before you talk about a date, it is the custom that the Auditor General typically appears before the public accounts committee. If you're talking about access to online services in the past tense, what has been the track record of the government in providing access to online services, typically, public accounts would look at that. It looks at the financial aspects but also the operational aspects.

The focus of this committee is more future looking in terms of estimates. On this side, I don't think we're that interested. It could be a very interesting discussion, but I think it belongs in a different committee.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

...[Inaudible — Editor] for quite some time. I don't know whatever happened to that.

If I do have the floor, the first thing I'd say is that I thought we had a problem with March 6. Tony doesn't like to come to meetings on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

If we're going to have the Treasury Board here without the President of the Treasury Board, I think we should reschedule. That's one estimates where we want the minister here.

If we can back up and agree to some other way to hear the main estimates of the Treasury Board with the minister present, I'd like to see that established first, even before we debate other business.