Government Operations Committee on April 1st, 2014

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Order, please.

Good morning, everyone. This is our 17th meeting.

As part of our study on the main estimates, we have with us today officials from the Privy Council Office: Ms. Doucet, assistant deputy minister, corporate services; Ms. Cahill, executive director, finance and corporate planning division; and Mr. Elcock, special advisor on human smuggling and illegal migration.

As usual, the witnesses will have 10 minutes for their presentation, after which members of the committee will be able to ask questions until 9:45 a.m.

Without further delay, I will give you the floor, Ms. Doucet. Thank you for joining us today to speak to the main estimates.

[Michelle Doucet, Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Privy Council Office]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, everyone. Members of the committee, thank you for inviting us to speak to you today.

I am accompanied by two colleagues from the Privy Council Office—Mr. Ward Elcock and Ms. Karen Cahill. As you may know, Mr. Elcock is the special advisor on human smuggling and illegal migration. As such, he coordinates the Government of Canada strategy and response to migrant smuggling. Ms. Cahill is the executive director of the finance and corporate planning division of the corporate services branch in the Privy Council Office. In this capacity, she is also the deputy chief financial officer for the department.

My introductory comments are about the 2014-15 main estimates for the Privy Council Office (PCO) as well as its report on plans and priorities for the same year.

The PCO is seeking $118.8 million in the 2014-15 main estimates. This is an overall reduction of $4.6 million from the amount the PCO sought in last year's main estimates, which was $123.4 million.

The PCO's main estimates for this year are mainly related to the following.

A decrease of $4.4 million in savings was identified as part of the budget 2012 spending review. The PCO contribution to this exercise will total $9.2 million in savings, taking full effect today, in 2014-15. The PCO is one of many federal organizations that undertook this review with the goal of returning the government to balanced budgets, while at the same time improving the efficiency and effectiveness of government operations and programs.

To support these objectives, the PCO has undertaken several deficit reduction measures, including: transforming business processes across the department to achieve administrative efficiencies, further integrating the intergovernmental affairs function within the department, modernizing and streamlining the government communications function, and streamlining the cabinet system to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of decision-making.

The vast majority of PCO expenses consists of salaries and associated operational costs. As a result, most of the savings needed to be generated by having fewer employees within the department. These reductions were achieved through a fair and transparent workforce adjustment process where all affected employees were treated with respect and every possible effort was made to identify the best possible solution for each individual.

There is also a decrease of $1.4 million related to statutory authorities mostly related to contributions to employee benefit plans, which was made pursuant to Treasury Board Secretariat instructions.

In addition, there is a decrease of $0.3 million related to three efficiency exercises. The first one is the continuation of the consolidation of pay services to PWGSC's Centre of Expertise in Miramichi, New Brunswick. The two other efficiency exercises are for measures announced in Canada’s economic action plan 2013: namely, the consolidation of the procurement of workplace technology device software and the reduction of travel costs.

These decreases are partially offset by an increase of $1.2 million for activities related to the continued implementation of Canada's migrant smuggling prevention strategy, headed by Mr. Elcock. As mentioned earlier, Mr. Elcock's mandate is to coordinate the Government of Canada strategy and response to migrant smuggling.

In the last two years, Canada has successfully secured cooperation in transit countries in Southeast Asia and west Africa. The PCO works closely with four other federal agencies to further Canada's objectives on this important initiative. Approved funding of $1.2 million for 2013-14 was sought through the 2013-14 supplementary estimates (B) and presented to this committee during the PCO's last appearance. Funding for 2014-15 is now included in our main estimates.

An increase of $0.4 million represents the portion of wages and salary increases to be paid to employees during fiscal year 2014-15, in accordance with specific collective agreements that took effect last year.

This completes the explanation of PCO's 2014-15 main estimates.

I will turn now to PCO's report on plans and priorities for fiscal year 2014-15 to give you an overview of PCO's planning highlights.

To begin, it is important to note that the PCO's sole strategic outcome is to ensure that the government's agenda and decision-making are supported and implemented and that the institutions of government are supported and maintained.

In this regard, the PCO will continue to play a central coordination and advisory role within the public service to support the government in achieving its stated objectives for the year. The PCO plans to successfully meet this strategic outcome by focusing on four key operational priorities during the year. None of these are new priorities, but some of them have been updated recently to better highlight the importance of certain areas of the department's work. For example, you will note under priority one that the PCO is now reflecting its advisory and support role for portfolio ministers, in addition to the Prime Minister.

This role has always been done in the past and has always been reported under the plans for this priority, but the revised priority now accurately reflects that the PCO supports the Prime Minister and the portfolio ministers in exercising their overall leadership responsibilities by providing professional, non-partisan advice and support on the entire spectrum of the government's policy, legislative, and government administration priorities. This includes, among other things, advice on social and economic affairs, regional development, foreign affairs, national security, defence, Governor in Council appointments, intergovernmental relations, and the environment.

The second of PCO's priorities will be to support the deliberations of cabinet and its committees on key policy initiatives and coordinate medium-term policy planning. This priority has also been updated for this year to better reflect the importance of the advisory and support roles PCO has always played for cabinet and its committees.

What that looks like is that PCO manages the day-to-day activities that support the work of cabinet and its committees, such as scheduling and support services for meetings, as well as the distribution of cabinet documents.

PCO will work throughout the year to provide guidance and a rigorous challenge function to departments to advance policy, legislative and government administration proposals that are high quality, prepared in a timely manner and focused on addressing priority areas identified by the government.

The PCO's third priority is to enable the management and accountability of government. The PCO provides strategic advice on whole-of-government transformation initiatives, public service renewal, and other management reforms, which will ultimately contribute to sound government administration, enhanced productivity in the public service, and improved services to Canadians.

To this end, the PCO will support the Clerk of the Privy Council and the Deputy Minister Board of Management and Renewal in the identification of whole-of-government proposals to advance the government's priority for improved efficiency and effectiveness. In addition, the PCO will actively engage and collaborate with implicated departments and other central agencies in the implementation of these proposals.

In 2013, the Clerk of the Privy Council launched the Blueprint 2020 engagement process. As you may know, this process sought the input of all public servants on a clear vision for the future of the public service, and to determine what changes were necessary to make that future a reality. PCO will continue to support the clerk in order to achieve this vision, both across the public service and within PCO itself.

In addition, PCO will continue to provide advice and support to the Prime Minister and the Clerk of the Privy Council on the human resource management of senior leaders. This includes supporting the learning and development of senior leaders, undertaking succession planning and performance management, and supporting the Deputy Minister Committee of Senior Officials.

In keeping with the major transformational initiatives taking place across the public service, PCO's fourth and final priority is to strengthen the department’s own internal management practices.

During the year, the PCO will continue to support the Government of Canada's human resources modernization initiative, which aims to consolidate and enhance the delivery of human resource services across the government. This will be achieved in large part through the adoption of common human resource business processes and the implementation of further process improvements to deliver better human resource services to clients.

In addition, PCO will continue its efforts to implement the new directive on performance management to ensure that PCO has a high-performing and adaptable workforce. PCO will also support the Government of Canada's efforts to enhance information technology through the modernization of computer desktops, the implementation of the email transformation initiative, the establishment of government-wide secure network connectivity, and the consolidation of Government of Canada data centres. To that end, PCO will be working closely with its key IT business partner, Shared Services Canada.

Finally, PCO will implement the Government of Canada’s shared travel solutions initiative, as well as undertake a review of the department’s financial processes in order to align them with the Government of Canada’s financial business process modernization initiative.

In conclusion, it is through these initiatives and activities, done in support of PCO's four organizational priorities, that the department will be able to successfully fulfill its overall strategic outcome.

I would like to thank you for the opportunity to explain the initiatives related to PCO's 2014-15 main estimates and our report on plans and priorities. We would be pleased to address your questions.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you.

Without further delay, I will open the floor to members of the committee.

Mr. Martin, you have five minutes.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Madame Doucet. That was a helpful presentation, I think, because I'm not sure there's a clear understanding amongst MPs, and certainly amongst the general public, of the full scope of the PCO's jurisdiction and what they do. It has been helpful to see at least the plans and priorities give an outline of what you see as your priorities.

I'm a little confused as to why Mr. Elcock would be with you regarding such a small aspect of what the PCO does, but he's certainly welcome, and we're certainly interested in the category that he oversees.

One worrisome thing about the estimates generally—and I'd like you to tell us a bit about this—is that there seems to be a trend towards more and more statutory appropriations and fewer and fewer voted. That trend puts more and more of government spending outside of the scrutiny and oversight of parliamentary committees, along with the ability to amend or decrease or vote on, in fact, that spending.

One of those areas I'd like to ask you about is in the supplementary estimates (B), and I thank our analysts for pointing this out. In those there was language that essentially transferred the office of Infrastructure Canada to be under the purview of the PCO. That's just my understanding. This is a massive shift, a $3.3-billion budget, $2 billion of which is statutory and only $1.3 billion of which is voted.

With all due respect, this is what I meant about bringing Mr. Elcock and his $1.2-million budget, while we've had no mention in your report on plans and priorities or your main estimates that the PCO has now transferred....

Let's just see the language there:

Pursuant to a decision by "The Executive" to position the Office of Infrastructure of Canada in a separate Infrastructure, Communities and Intergovernmental Affairs portfolio, Order in Council P.C....transfers to the President of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada the control and supervision of the portion of the federal public administration known as the Office of Infrastructure of Canada, effective July 15, 2013.

I'm not sure that we or the general public was aware of that substantial transfer to the PCO, to the Prime Minister's department. Can you explain where we see reference to that in your plans and priorities, what impact that's had on the PCO, and where we get the scrutiny and oversight that we desire for all of these expenditures?

[Michelle Doucet]

Thank you for the question.

I think we have a bit of a two-part answer on that. I'm going to start, and Madame Cahill is going to speak after me.

The reference to the executive decision in the estimates refers to the machinery decision made by the Prime Minister to include the portfolio of intergovernmental affairs together with the portfolio of the minister also responsible for Infrastructure Canada. So what you see in front of you is a reflection of the machinery decision. PCO is not responsible for the funding associated with the infrastructure portfolio.

Pardon me?

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I think we do understand that, but our problem is that it's harder for us to see now if there has been an increase or a decrease in that infrastructure spending. How do we track this now that it's been transferred into the PCO? Under statutory spending it's very difficult for us to do the due diligence and scrutiny and oversight that our committee is charged with doing.

Can you help me to understand that?

[Michelle Doucet]

Probably not as much as I would like to. I will say, first of all, that my colleagues at Infrastructure Canada of course have their own CFO, who I'm sure would be pleased to explain their spending.

As well, on the question of statutory appropriations, my colleagues at the Treasury Board Secretariat were here before you last week, as you know, continuing their conversation with the committee on both how the estimates are conducted and explained, and our desire across Government of Canada to always do a better job on that.

I'll just turn to Karen to see if she wants to speak to the subject of statutory appropriations.

[Karen Cahill, Executive Director, Finance and Corporate Planning Division, Privy Council Office]

Thank you, Michelle.

Actually, for this specific statutory appropriation, it will be reflected under Infrastructure Canada's main estimates and tracked under Infrastructure Canada. As Madame Doucet indicated, they have their own CFO. They provide their RPP as well as their main estimates, and the forecasted expenditures will also be reflected in their 2014-15 RPP.

The PCO has a portion of the budget for Minister Lebel, but this does not pertain to these functions. Those are absolutely reflected under Infrastructure Canada.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you. I have to stop you there. Mr. Trottier now has the floor for five minutes.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming today to present the main estimates for 2014-15.

In your presentation, Madame Doucet, you mentioned that the PCO provides professional, non-partisan advice and support on the entire spectrum of government policy, legislative, and administrative priorities. I'm curious to know how that works in practice. Obviously Parliament is a partisan place.

You mentioned that there are 851 people in the PCO, or at least 851 full-time equivalent people. Are all of those people non-partisan? How does that actually work in practice when you're dealing with partisan members of Parliament and their staff?

[Michelle Doucet]

Thank you.

It's a very good question. Thank you for the chance to speak to that.

I think as all of you will well appreciate, we are fortunate in this country. We have an elected government. We have a democratic system.

But governments can change. They reflect the will of the people. In order to ensure stability and continuity of government and to provide the best expertise possible, the public service exists. It is absolutely essential for the public service to be non-partisan to continue to ensure the stability of the country and to support the will of the people.

I think that one of the things folks might have a hard time understanding is how the PCO actually operates. What does this department that supports the Prime Minister actually do with our just over 800 folks? Maybe I'll take a few minutes to explain that.

Our main purpose is to provide advice. All departments provide advice to ministers. We are no different. Ministers can choose to take that advice or to disregard it. It is up to them. So we provide advice. I would say that's what a whole lot of people at PCO do, and they have different specialties. We have folks who are specialized in all of the domains that I spoke about in my opening remarks. For instance, we have a group that supports the Prime Minister on foreign and defence matters.

We have a group that supports the Prime Minister on making economic decisions. What would that include? That would include portfolios like transport, agriculture, and Industry Canada. When they have decisions that need to be made through the cabinet process, the Prime Minister needs advice on the questions that are being put to them. The Privy Council Office provides that advice.

The other thing those specialists also do is that we're organized in a way that supports the functions of the various cabinet committees and the subcommittees. There's a group that supports the Cabinet Committee on Priorities and Planning and the subcommittee that takes decisions on economic matters, like the ones I just talked about. Then there is the subcommittee that takes decisions on social matters. We have I think some of the best and brightest public servants in government working at the PCO, who support those committees and who work with other departments to make sure we play the challenge function when they have ideas that they want to put before the government.

There are two other things we do at the PCO that are of interest. One, there are the unique things that we do. We provide the Prime Minister with advice on the machinery of government, and government and council appointments, and we have a specialty in doing the paperwork to process the decisions made around that. That's unique to the Privy Council Office. Then finally, of course, there's the function that my branch does, which is internal services. Those are all centralized at the Privy Council Office. We don't have satellite internal services offices across the rest of the department. They're centralized in the group I lead.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you. That's helpful when it comes to clarifying the context you operate in.

Now I want to talk about your estimates, and actually not just this year's estimates, but the longer-term trend. When I read your report on plans and priorities, I see that going back to 2011-12 there was a total appropriation of $155 million. There is what I would say is a healthy trend in terms of cost containment in going from $155 million in 2011-12 and projecting out in 2016-17 to $117 million, which is a significant reduction.

You mentioned the best and brightest and some very sage advice being offered to these cabinet committees, so how did you prioritize when you went through your reductions in your estimates? Obviously in any organization you could find some activities that are of lower value and some that are of higher value. Every department across government has been asked to do that. You've done a very strong job, I'd say, in terms of prioritizing your activities in the PCO.

[Michelle Doucet]

I'll start. Karen might have something to add, although we don't have a lot of time. Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

You have about one minute left.

[Michelle Doucet]

Thank you.

Our reductions were made, I think, in a couple of broad categories. One was areas where we could transform the way that we worked. So, for instance, we had a secretariat, a group of people who were supporting the operations subcommittee of cabinet, and the assistant deputy minister who ran that secretariat put her hand up and said, “You know what? We don't need this many people to do this, and we don't need a separate secretariat. We can change the way that we work and integrate ourselves in with the broader branch. We can do just as good a job with fewer people, but we'll have to change the way we work.” That's what they did. So that's an example of a transformation initiative.

Then the other way that we got the reductions was through good old-fashioned efficiencies. I'm sure that you've heard lots from my colleagues across the public service, but we did that. A number of efficiencies took place in my branch, but certainly also across the rest of the department.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

I have to stop you and give the floor to Ms. Day.

Ms. Day, you have five minutes.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are primarily for Mr. Elcock.

Illegal migrants are often people who leave their countries for economic reasons, criminals or terrorists. They might transit through Canada to go to another country or they might stay here for a while.

The estimates provide for a $1.1-million increase in funding for the Office of the Special Advisor on Human Smuggling and Illegal Migration. Can you tell us what purpose will the funding serve?

[Ward Elcock, Special Advisor on Human Smuggling and Illegal Migration, Privy Council Office]

Mr. Chairman, in a sense it's a bit of a misnomer to say that it's an increase because the $1.1 million is the same budget we had previously, but it was expected earlier that this program would sunset, so there wouldn't be any expenditure in this year. In fact the program was continued on for up to another two years. That's why there's a $1.1 million increase, or what looks like a $1.1 million increase.

In point of fact it's the same budget we had before. It goes essentially to the same places: mostly to travel, some salary dollars, and a lot of salary dollars to travel. We have a small contracting capacity and the normal things that any other government office has in terms of training, and so on and so forth. It goes exactly to the same places that the previous budget went to.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

PCO expects the number of employees to shrink from 851 to 835? Will your office be affected by this reduction? I don't understand why you are telling me that it's the same thing. Having $1.1 million extra is not the same thing as having $1.1 million less. I think there is a difference.

Overall budgets are dropping, but yours is going up. So what purpose will the funding serve?

[Ward Elcock]

We have a very small office. It varies between about five and six people. Virtually all of those people are in fact seconded from other departments and their salaries are absorbed by other departments. We have declined in the number of PCO dollars spent on salaries. We have one fewer support staff, but that's essentially the only difference from previous years.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

The NDP member for Compton—Stanstead, Jean Rousseau, is constantly complaining about the fact that his region is a haven for human smuggling.

Has your sector taken action to reduce human smuggling?

[Ward Elcock]

Mr. Chairman, there is an ongoing effort by border enforcement agencies to deal with people crossing the borders by walking over them or driving through border checkpoints, as has happened. That effort by the police, by enforcement on both sides of the border in fact, has borne considerable truth. I think the numbers are down, which isn't to say that with a long border that spans some 5,000 miles, it isn't hard and difficult to police at all times of the day. There are still incidences of people crossing the border, but certainly the enforcement agencies on both sides of the border, the RCMP, Canada Border Services Agency, and Canada together sometimes with their American counterparts have done a considerable amount of work to try to reduce the flow across the border.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

You said that a number of your employees had been seconded from other departments. Can you tell us how many people work for you, but are not paid directly by the Privy Council Office?

[Ward Elcock]

We have a total of about four officers, Mr. Chairman.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Do you have a minimum number of your own people, who do not come from other departments?